RealTrains07
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Why are they getting overhauls now?
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Class 315 Withdrawals
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306024
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To keep them maintained perhaps? You can’t just keep a train running if it has reached its mileage or time threshold for its next major exam.
When the 9 car units are introduced on the Paddington - Hayes service the 7 car units over there can return East and replace 315s, hopefully before the 315s require further exams.
59CosG95
Established Member
Just because they require an overhaul, doesn't necessarily mean they'll get one. LO will probably withdraw them when the time to overhaul them comes.
That said, the 332s on HEx services have worked for almost 20 years without a single major overhaul (I'm led to believe).
cnjb8
Established Member
The 332s were withdrawn temporarily a few years ago due to faults.
They'll have to be careful. They need 27 units out of 31 to cover the peak service, all 17 315s and 10 317s. I think the 315s are PRM compliant but the 317s are not. Could get messy in January.
700007
Established Member
The 317s aren't that far off from being PRM compliant as I understand it - I must be right in thinking all of the big work (such as compliant toilets) have already been done?
bluegoblin7
Established Member
For LO the compliant toilets work has simply been to lock them out...
The toilets are locked out of use on London Overground. I don't think any of the other mods have been done but they have on the 315s.
which will be just as much about ataking away something that can be vandalised, about not needing to fill water tanks, clean loos etc- it is after all a metro operation.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Exactly. TfL services don't have toilets, and running a handful of trains with toilets would cause more problems than it is worth. See also the TfL Rail West class 360s.
A previous posted had pointed out that the 317s on LO had had compliant toilet works, which is (generally - the 317/7s of course did have accessible toilets, although I don't know that they met the latest specs) incorrect.
zn1
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when a coded repair comes up, the unit will undergo several decisions before authority is permitted...
cost & value for money
length of service the overhaul will give - when crossrail kicks in the 315s are effectively a dead fleet..so doing Code 4s and code 6's on too many isnt cost effective as it could be the unit has its code 4 and within 4 weeks its taken off lease, sits around for a year then is scrapped, or as has happened in BR days is overhauled and within days is condemned.
full condition report ..how much longer has the unit got before its actually too expensive to keep in traffic - we do same with our cars...if repair cost exceeds its market value...we dump em...TOCS & Roscos do the same .
it could be that the unit can be kept in service by keeping it traffic with short term overhaul, effectively just a conditional change of components that need doing, a C4m - motors only, just swap motors ove C4B code 4 bogie swap, but retain allocated motors ..just to keep it traffic in for a short time..
the Fleet now will be being scruitinised by Depot engineer staff to identify which of the fleet are the worst and best...in the 315 fleet will be steadily reduced further to skeleton size ..and others stepping in, 313 could fill in happily if they are in better nick mechanically, crew training isnt too hard on them...
cost & value for money
length of service the overhaul will give - when crossrail kicks in the 315s are effectively a dead fleet..so doing Code 4s and code 6's on too many isnt cost effective as it could be the unit has its code 4 and within 4 weeks its taken off lease, sits around for a year then is scrapped, or as has happened in BR days is overhauled and within days is condemned.
full condition report ..how much longer has the unit got before its actually too expensive to keep in traffic - we do same with our cars...if repair cost exceeds its market value...we dump em...TOCS & Roscos do the same .
it could be that the unit can be kept in service by keeping it traffic with short term overhaul, effectively just a conditional change of components that need doing, a C4m - motors only, just swap motors ove C4B code 4 bogie swap, but retain allocated motors ..just to keep it traffic in for a short time..
the Fleet now will be being scruitinised by Depot engineer staff to identify which of the fleet are the worst and best...in the 315 fleet will be steadily reduced further to skeleton size ..and others stepping in, 313 could fill in happily if they are in better nick mechanically, crew training isnt too hard on them...
reddragon
Established Member
There is an extra 345 in the east now, 12 in total since 345.029 was reduced to a 7 car
RealTrains07
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313 and 315 are pretty the same though arn’t they?? except the 313 are smaller with 3 coaches of course but apart from that?
RealTrains07
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The 360s still have working toilets though dont they?
What is the state of the 315s, do they have universal toilets or not since they are tfl?
samuelmorris
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No toilets fitted, disabled or otherwise.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
No, permanently locked out of use.
Buggleskelly
Member
Add the fact that 315's are AC only, like the 314's. 313's are dual voltage.
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RealTrains07
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Shame the 314 and 315s arnt dual voltage
Steve Newman
Member
I have seen 28 of the 31 allocated units for the Overground Liverpool St services in the month of August. Those missing were;
315805 - Last seen 4/5/19
317708 - Last seen 12/7/19
317892 - Last seen 12/7/19
Depending how many times I use my local station, Southbury, I usually see between 26 & 28 different units each month.
It does not look like 315805 is going to be back, unless anyone knows better. Perhaps they will sub it with another Shenfield 315, similar to 315858.
315805 - Last seen 4/5/19
317708 - Last seen 12/7/19
317892 - Last seen 12/7/19
Depending how many times I use my local station, Southbury, I usually see between 26 & 28 different units each month.
It does not look like 315805 is going to be back, unless anyone knows better. Perhaps they will sub it with another Shenfield 315, similar to 315858.
ChiefPlanner
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For what it is worth - and being interested in the 315's (having recalled them coming in a blaze of glory to replace the superb , but run down 306's) , I have tried to have a "last ride" on the Shenfield line (admittedly off peak) -and found just 345's in service. I quite like them to be fair.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
The ex HC 360 I was on the other day I actually used the disabled toilet to check my hair in the mirror. It definitely works. Also, do we know of any more confirmed 315 withdrawals?
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700007
Established Member
It you are trying to find XR 315s then your best bet is on a weekday. I believe all Sunday duties are done by 345s now and most Saturdays are done by 345s too (about 9 out of 11 now I think).
Some 7 cars should be coming to the East side over the next month or so depending on how introduction of 9 cars go which means that some more 315s will be going off lease. Specific units not mentioned yet but it's looking like a handful to go.
This explains why there are always six pairs of 317s running rather than the diagrammed five. Taking on some Shenfield 315s would make sense if the 710s don't start soon. I think the 315s are PRM compliant but the 317s are not.
I think weekdays there are still six pairs of 315s off peak. Presumably Saturdays will go entirely 345 if more units come over from the west side.
Electrojuniper
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LO 315805 authorised repair following derailment........ and cascade of TfL class 315's to LO to commence shortly to replace those going off lease.
Jamesrob637
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My last ride on a 315 was on the Shenfield Shuttle aka Shenfield ****e! Was clapped out and this was in 2011!
samuelmorris
Established Member
Thanks to TfL, at least from a passenger's perspective they're in better shape now than they were in 2011. For almost 40-year old units we could be doing a lot worse.
stu227
Member
It is incredible that they manage to make such old unites look relatively decent - and maintain them so they turn up more regularly and punctually than any previous operator. Concession v Franchise? It's certainly telling that rush hour at Brentwood sees almost exclusively 315s still rather than a 345.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Not exclusively, but due to the way the units are diagrammed (specifically considering which peak services are busiest and most in need of the extra capacity of the 345s), you get them bunching up a lot - four successive services out to Brentwood could be 345s, then the next four could be 315s. Generally by taking 'first available' train my experience for the past year travelling infrequently has been 40/60 345/315, by skewing it to 'first air-conditioned train available' when travelling east from Liverpool Street (where I can easily see my options) it balances to 50/50, though sometimes use of 360s and Renatus 321s to Shenfield and back is necessary.
As it stands I think the MTIN figure for the 345s is approaching that of a pair of 315s, not quite there yet. It does show though, units that were built properly to begin with can last far beyond their original intended lifespan if they are just looked after. The same goes for the PIS system the 315s were fitted with. Perhaps as you say it's a matter for being a concession rather than a franchise or internal to TfL - certainly the C stock trains were not given anything like the same attention in the year before they were withdrawn, many of them looking like they'd already been in a scrapyard for years while still in operation. Generally TfL's 315s are immaculate - to be fair so are the 345s. Compared to the likes of TL's 700s of similar age, it's a remarkable difference.
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