Wrongly Assumed Facts by Passengers

341o2 · 3 Sep 2019

In the early days of the Talyllyn, one timetable gave details of connecting BR trains, but it was not worth it after some passengers thought the railway would take them to that destination. There also were a few incidents where passengers refused to believe the train ran to a timetable at all. These individuals would miss the last train, then turn up at Warf after a rather longer walk than planned, expecting (but not receiving) a refund

RailUK Forums

dgl · 3 Sep 2019

infobleep said:
Turning up for a train because you know the time it leaves, only to find the train doesn't run any more or it departs at an earlier time to what you assumed it was.

An example of this would be the 19:25 Woking to Portsmouth service. It ran for a long time and now the service from Waterloo skips Woking, so no 19:25. I've only just noticed this, as I was comparing service frequencies with Effingham Junction, so could easily have been caught out.

I can imagine some people turned up for the x10 Guildford to Gatwick Airport when the May 2018 timetable came into being as they would have assumed that was the time the train left. Alas no it now became any time between x06 and x13.

Almost did this going from Weymouth to Crewkerne, via Pen Mill and Junction. Had done it a few times the previous year as I could leave work and get in to Weymouth on time to get there that evening rather than having to get up early in the morning. Of course they removed the last Pen Mill to Junction train which made the journey now impossible, something I did not realise until I had a good look at the times it gave me on NRE and realised that it had ceased showing me a connecting train but a walk instead. Would not have been fun getting to Pen Mill realising there was no train to Junction and having to walk along a country lane to Junction or spends loads on a taxi.

duffield · 3 Sep 2019

CaptainHaddock said:
People also assume the same if you make the mistake of wearing your orange PPE jacket while waiting for your train home!

People at Nottingham station sometimes assume I'm rail staff - white shirt, grey trousers, no tie, no badge visible. I try to be helpful because I know most of the train times etc. but always add 'but I don't work here, you might want to check with the staff!'

Although recently I did discretely tip off a passenger who had been advised by a staff member (at 13:00) to get the 13:36 to Leicester that the 13:12 London train might get him there quite a bit sooner...

And to preempt any queries re my advice, advances/specific trains etc. don't apply for this journey and there was no question of the 13:36 being better for getting a seat, in fact if you had missed the 13:12 the 13:36 stopper would *still* be the wrong option since the 13:45 London 'fast' overtakes it!

sprunt · 3 Sep 2019

Llama said:
What it usually means is a shortage of competence.

Right, but when a TOC says that they have enough staff, the unsaid "with the necessary qualifications to operate our services" is kind of taken as read.

Red1980 said:
Hahahaha "facts" and "passengers" in the same sentence always makes me chuckle.

Funny - as a passenger, I have the same reaction to "facts" and "the railway" appearing in the same sentence.

Fred26 · 3 Sep 2019

sprunt said:
Right, but when a TOC says that they have enough staff, the unsaid "with the necessary qualifications to operate our services" is kind of taken as read.

Yes. Having all the drivers you need, but none of them qualified means nothing. For all intents and purposes you might as well not count them at all. Ergo, 'shortage of train crew' is still accurate even with a 'full quota' of drivers.

island · 4 Sep 2019

That Clapham is a station in south London.

Red1980 · 4 Sep 2019

sprunt said:
Right, but when a TOC says that they have enough staff, the unsaid "with the necessary qualifications to operate our services" is kind of taken as re

Funny - as a passenger, I have the same reaction to "facts" and "the railway" appearing in the same sentence.

sprunt said:
Right, but when a TOC says that they have enough staff, the unsaid "with the necessary qualifications to operate our services" is kind of taken as read.

Funny - as a passenger, I have the same reaction to "facts" and "the railway" appearing in the same sentence.

Well the good thing for you as a passenger is there's plenty of other options you can use to get you from A to B should the railways facts not be to your liking.

Much in the same way that's it's a good thing for the railway there's lots of other passengers who quite like it's facts and are content using its services. So looking at this as a whole and from both sides it doesn't look like either you or the railway would be missed.

Win win I say.

hwl · 4 Sep 2019

island said:
That Clapham is a station in south London.

A choice from one of 5 stations in South London...

Spartacus · 4 Sep 2019

hwl said:
A choice from one of 5 stations in South London...

Or specifically one station in North Yorkshire.....

vlad · 4 Sep 2019

If that counts, then how about Bootle is served by Merseyrail and Acton Bridge is walking distance from Acton Main Line.

LancasterRed · 5 Sep 2019

One I heard today...
When a TOC loses their franchise they take all of the trains with them. Remember this being an issue too with people thinking 185s were going to run Glasgow-London services after First won the WCML franchise in 2012.

syorksdeano · 5 Sep 2019

LancasterRed said:
One I heard today...
When a TOC loses their franchise they take all of the trains with them. Remember this being an issue too with people thinking 185s were going to run Glasgow-London services after First won the WCML franchise in 2012.

I wish Northern had

Ruff77 · 5 Sep 2019

One I heard today - everything that passes through Clapham Junction calls there. Maybe at one time this was true? It’s certainly not the case now.

PeterC · 5 Sep 2019

LancasterRed said:
One I heard today...
When a TOC loses their franchise they take all of the trains with them. Remember this being an issue too with people thinking 185s were going to run Glasgow-London services after First won the WCML franchise in 2012.

Wrong but a reasonable assumption (about owning the stock not the 185s!)

TurbostarFan · 11 Sep 2019

Ruff77 said:
One I heard today - everything that passes through Clapham Junction calls there. Maybe at one time this was true? It’s certainly not the case now.

The Gatwick Express doesn't!

SM Chobham Int · 12 Sep 2019

Going back many many years........ that a Capital Card ( what travelcards are now for the younger readers) could be used to Edinburgh.... when told no - “But Edinburgh is a capital isn’t it”

It says on the board “replacement bus service....... what platform does the replacement bus go from”

But my favourite:
I have to go to a funeral in Burnley - can you tell me the times of the trains please ?
Yes - when are you going ?
I don’t know - he hasn’t died yet !!!!

krus_aragon · 12 Sep 2019

SM Chobham Int said:
It says on the board “replacement bus service....... what platform does the replacement bus go from”

That one could work at Llandudno Junction: the bus stop in the car park is labelled as Platform 5!

Lee_Again · 12 Sep 2019

SM Chobham Int said:
But my favourite:
I have to go to a funeral in Burnley - can you tell me the times of the trains please ?
Yes - when are you going ?
I don’t know - he hasn’t died yet !!!!

better than...Can I have a return please? Where to, sir? Back here !!!

Springs Branch · 12 Sep 2019

For a few years between first becoming interested in the wonderful world of railways, up to the age of about 12, I assumed you could only buy tickets from any given station to those stations served by direct trains.

So for a journey such as Wigan to Llandudno (which always requires a change at Warrington BQ) you'd need to first buy a Wigan/Warrington ticket, then visit the booking office at Warrington BQ to buy the Warrington/Llandudno ticket.

I suppose this belief was due to our family only doing short, simple train journeys when I was young, plus familiarity with bus travel, where you certainly did need to pay a new fare every time you boarded a different vehicle back then (no Day Tickets, multi-modal Rangers and the like in the 1960s/ early 70s).

I wonder if any infrequent train travellers have this misconception today?

krus_aragon · 12 Sep 2019

Springs Branch said:
For a few years between first becoming interested in the wonderful world of railways, up to the age of about 12, I assumed you could only buy tickets from any given station to those stations served by direct trains.

So for a journey such as Wigan to Llandudno (which always requires a change at Warrington BQ) you'd need to first buy a Wigan/Warrington ticket, then visit the booking office at Warrington BQ to buy the Warrington/Llandudno ticket.

I suppose this belief was due to our family only doing short, simple train journeys when I was young, plus familiarity with bus travel, where you certainly did need to pay a new fare every time you boarded a different vehicle back then (no Day Tickets, multi-modal Rangers and the like in the 1960s/ early 70s).

I wonder if any infrequent train travellers have this misconception today?

I've come across that philosophy in the Cardiff valleys: buying one ticket to Central, and then another ticket for travel on the mainline.

Bletchleyite · 12 Sep 2019

krus_aragon said:
I've come across that philosophy in the Cardiff valleys: buying one ticket to Central, and then another ticket for travel on the mainline.

It can be cheaper in some cases where through TOC specific/Advance tickets don't exist. So while it's not automatically the best option it's worth checking.

It's also what you're required to do in many countries that have airline style pricing (i.e. each ticket is for a specific seat on a specific single train).

It was also true of "Paytrains" originally (local DMUs where ticket offices were closed and you paid on board only).

krus_aragon · 12 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It was also true of "Paytrains" originally (local DMUs where ticket offices were closed and you paid on board only).

That could well be the origin of the belief in this instance: the individuals I had in mind didn't think a ticket for through travel could exist (let alone whether it'd be cheaper or not).

Kingston Flyer · 12 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It can be cheaper in some cases where through TOC specific/Advance tickets don't exist. So while it's not automatically the best option it's worth checking.

In fact that is still the case for tickets passing through Cardiff Central.

My nearest station is Pontyclun and no matter where I am going is generally cheaper to buy PYC - CDF separately (and I always check whether it will end up so).

I have even confused a fair few conductors as a consequence, for example if travelling up to Kidderminster for the SVR (yes it is daytripable) I will start with the 06:30 from PYC, but travel on that train as far as Hereford.

Horizon22 · 12 Sep 2019

That train companies own their rolling stock and therefore nationalisation would just require franchises being taken into public hands. Oh but the ROSCOs...

6Gman · 12 Sep 2019

Horizon22 said:
That train companies own their rolling stock and therefore nationalisation would just require franchises being taken into public hands. Oh but the ROSCOs...

Though the Pendolinos, of course, were personally purchased by Richard Branson.

Journeyman · 13 Sep 2019

SM Chobham Int said:
Going back many many years........ that a Capital Card ( what travelcards are now for the younger readers) could be used to Edinburgh.... when told no - “But Edinburgh is a capital isn’t it”

It says on the board “replacement bus service....... what platform does the replacement bus go from”

But my favourite:
I have to go to a funeral in Burnley - can you tell me the times of the trains please ?
Yes - when are you going ?
I don’t know - he hasn’t died yet !!!!

I had someone come up to me at the barriers at Charing Cross tube station once, telling me he had a job interview in Barking. He asked me how to get there, so I gave him directions to go up the road to Embankment and get the District line. He asked me how long it would take, so I told him probably about forty minutes.

He then proceeded to rant at me, saying his interview was in half an hour, and what was I going to do to get him there on time?

"Oh, sorry sir, excuse me while I physically move Barking closer to central London for you..."

Journeyman · 13 Sep 2019

Springs Branch said:
For a few years between first becoming interested in the wonderful world of railways, up to the age of about 12, I assumed you could only buy tickets from any given station to those stations served by direct trains.

So for a journey such as Wigan to Llandudno (which always requires a change at Warrington BQ) you'd need to first buy a Wigan/Warrington ticket, then visit the booking office at Warrington BQ to buy the Warrington/Llandudno ticket.

I suppose this belief was due to our family only doing short, simple train journeys when I was young, plus familiarity with bus travel, where you certainly did need to pay a new fare every time you boarded a different vehicle back then (no Day Tickets, multi-modal Rangers and the like in the 1960s/ early 70s).

I wonder if any infrequent train travellers have this misconception today?

It did actually exist like that for a while, if you boarded a Pay Train - only local tickets were available, and you'd have to rebook at interchanges.

Journeyman · 13 Sep 2019

Horizon22 said:
That train companies own their rolling stock and therefore nationalisation would just require franchises being taken into public hands. Oh but the ROSCOs...

This, unfortunately, seems to be the thing that Jeremy Corbyn is either ignorant of or chooses to ignore. The ROSCO business model is that they'll buy the trains on long-term finance deals from the builders, that are paid for by the long-term leasing contracts they have with TOCs, so effectively new trains are pretty much built on the model of a buy-to-let landlord. ROSCOs have a vast amount of capital tied up in them, and there's absolutely no way any government could afford the billions it would cost to buy them out.

pompeyfan · 13 Sep 2019

But couldn’t that be used to the advantage of the government if they so wanted? Lets say the DfT take the reigns directly and renegotiate all fleets that are under 30 years old. When a fleet approaches 30 the DfT put an invitation to tender out and an invitation to finance, whoever submits the best deal in terms of price and aftercare maintenance (if specified).

If I go and buy or lease a car on a 0% deposit, I can choose what term I borrow over and who the lender is and also what type of service package I receive. Naturally I’ll go for the lowest price if I can afford the repayments, this keeps them competitive.

Journeyman · 13 Sep 2019

pompeyfan said:
But couldn’t that be used to the advantage of the government if they so wanted? Lets say the DfT take the reigns directly and renegotiate all fleets that are under 30 years old. When a fleet approaches 30 the DfT put an invitation to tender out and an invitation to finance, whoever submits the best deal in terms of price and aftercare maintenance (if specified).

If I go and buy or lease a car on a 0% deposit, I can choose what term I borrow over and who the lender is and also what type of service package I receive. Naturally I’ll go for the lowest price if I can afford the repayments, this keeps them competitive.

I think the only way you could renationalize rolling stock is by changing the method of buying new trains, and just allowing all the old stock and contracts to expire and make their way out of the system over time. It would take 30 to 40 years to resolve completely.

Wrongly Assumed Facts by Passengers

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