krus_aragon
Established Member
But only after someone tables a specific motion of no confidence in the Government, and Parliament passes that motion.
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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Telegraph (!) reporting inside information that the entire plan is to force a deal by running down the clock, and that the "negotiations" currently going on with the EU are just there to placate back benchers fears that nothing is happening, which it isn't. Frost was sent to negotiate with the instructions to run the clock down.
Separately, Attorney General Cox told Boris removing the backstop won't happen and will just cause no-deal. And the government have been trying to open talks about mini-deals to mitigate a no-deal, but have been rebuffed by the EU.
If this is all true, and it rings as such, we're well into the sort of stuff that brings down governments. You have the leadership of the party deliberately lying to their own party members. You have the government deliberately trying to destroy their own negotiations. In normal circumstances this alone would be reason for losing a vote of no confidence.
Separately, Attorney General Cox told Boris removing the backstop won't happen and will just cause no-deal. And the government have been trying to open talks about mini-deals to mitigate a no-deal, but have been rebuffed by the EU.
If this is all true, and it rings as such, we're well into the sort of stuff that brings down governments. You have the leadership of the party deliberately lying to their own party members. You have the government deliberately trying to destroy their own negotiations. In normal circumstances this alone would be reason for losing a vote of no confidence.
Bantamzen
Established Member
As the article states, this is the state of play today. It's just that nobody bothers to enforce it.
The GB country code was assigned in 1910 and is formalised as part of ISO 3166-1. By rights this website should be .gb to match, but we'd already been using UK. so never transitioned.
Howardh
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Well well well, Dr Phillip Lee (Conservative) crossed the house as Johnson stood and is now a Lib Dem, and Johnson's majority is now minus one.
EM2
Established Member
When you think about it logically, the stance on No Deal makes no sense.
It cannot be BOTH perfectly manageable and be absolutely fine for the UK, and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in.
It cannot be BOTH perfectly manageable and be absolutely fine for the UK, and yet so terrible that the threat of it will force the EU to cave in.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Just seen a brief snippet from him citing, amongst other things the way Rees-Moggs talked to the consultant on LBC recently. I hope this opens the floodgates, and that any Tories dissatisfied by the way their so called leaders are treating just about everyone break ranks and decimate their power in the house. Of course this means putting their principles ahead of their political career, so I'm not planning on holding my breath...
Bantamzen
Established Member
This is where Brexiteers will tell you "they need us more than we need them". Which is why the EU has been caving into the BoJoBots icy stare. Oh, wait....
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Triggering an election before the end of the five-year term needs needs either a two-thirds majority voting for it, or a motion of no confidence to pass and nobody else winning a confidence motion within 14 days. If the government has no majority then it can be prevented from forcing an election by either route, as long as the opposition forces are united. This is however rather a tall order given that parts of Labour see a general election as a big prize. I must admit the idea rather appeals of keeping Boris in glove-puppet mode and legislating for him to do all sorts of things he doesn't want to.
I believe there is also a convention that only the Leader of the Opposition has the right to have a no confidence vote debated, so the Speaker might be justified in ruling out a motion from a governing party seeking to declare no confidence in itself.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Brexitists are setting it up so everyone else can be blamed when No Deal trashes the economy. They've already managed to blame Remoaners for the fact that Leave MPs voted against the deal that would have seen us leave six months ago. Now anyone who isn't all aboard the Brexit Bus is a Remoaner Traitor- including many Eurosceptics- and it's just going to get worse.
I'm expecting FullFash from the Brexitists when the effluence hits the air cooling device. Heaven knows Nigel the Ronseal Reichsführer needs to encouragement to go MegaNazi.
Howardh
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The good news is, if the rebel's get their way and Boris eventually calls a GE (and Labour vote for it) there's every chance fag-end Farage will put enough Brexit party candidates in the Tory seats to wipe out both their own and the Tory party. Farage will do that because they only care about themselves, and the worst thing Farage wants is not to be in the news.
Just to try and avoid too much duplication can we be clear that this thread is for discussion of Brexit related matters only not the General Election itself. I appreciate that they are going to end up blurred but things like:
Again this is going to be very difficult to keep straight but please do your best!
- Whether or not there will be an election
- The outcome of tonight's vote (or other votes in the future)
- Campaigning
- Manifestos
- Who I'm going to vote for
- etc
- Preparation for no-deal
- Statements from the EU
- What I think will happen to Brexit
- etc
Again this is going to be very difficult to keep straight but please do your best!
Struner
Member
Tough!
Killingworth
Established Member
Sadly this mess just got messier. Managers of anything just want certainty. There are enough things to manage without all this extra hassle to think about. Half the country is bound to blame the other for the economic slowdown that will be very hard to avoid. It doesn't matter which party wins an election, or if we stay or go. The recriminations will take years to heal.
There is only one side that has managed to split the entire country and that is the Brexit side. The vote was as near as damn it 50/50 3 years ago. It wouldn't have carried on pretty much any other country that is regularly using referendums to decide policy. The country is scr*w*d. It is entirely the fault of the leavers.
Wivenswold
Established Member
Bizarre events tonight. At a time when Boris needs all the support he can muster, he's effectively fired 21 Tories, burning many bridges in the process. Ken Clarke in particular is well respected on both sides of parliament, in the Civil Service and with the public too. I believe Brexit is back in the balance. Or rather, "Keeping things as they are" is more likely as I prefer to look at it. Polling (YouGov 3/9/19) shows that 48% think with hindsight the UK is wrong to leave, 41% still want Brexit and 11% don't know. That last lot matters, they need to be charmed, not alarmed.
Rees-Mogg's face said it all tonight, he looked like his world had caved in. Perhaps it has for many of them, as disappointed lobbyists don't waste their hospitality budgets on ineffective politicians.
Rees-Mogg's face said it all tonight, he looked like his world had caved in. Perhaps it has for many of them, as disappointed lobbyists don't waste their hospitality budgets on ineffective politicians.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think he's preparing the ground for a deal with Farage. Don't put up a replacement in the 21 seats in exchange for Brexit party not standing anywhere else.
The problem boris is going to have now is that if you sack all the people that disagree with you then you just end up getting left with yes men. The problem here is that they then won't tell you when you've passed the point of no return and are well and truly borked. The yes men will realise this though and most of them will leave the moment the s*** hit's the fan trying to protect themselves and pass the blame.
But we shouldn't worry because he still has the Express supporting him
and we have "Taken Back Control!"
But we shouldn't worry because he still has the Express supporting him
and we have "Taken Back Control!"So he will do exactly what Cameron was worried enough about to call the referendum in the first place.
If Cameron didn't bother with ukip and trued to fix the problems people really had rather than the imagined ones and the false ones they blame the EU for, the country would be in a far better place
And this is why we need to get out come what may on the 31st of October.
It doesn't matter what you voted for anymore.
We were delayed in the beginning by making it law.
We have been delayed again by not getting anywhere by May.
Now we're facing another delay.
And all the while our country can't make any decisions, Managers can't invest properly, the pound will continue to be all over the place.
It's a shame that the House of Commons has become more akin to reality TV where people do things just for show rather than leading our country.
Shame we can't have a vote of no confidence for ALL current MPs and bring in a whole new bunch.
Problem with that strategy is that Farage has stated he'll only play ball if Boris goes for no-deal, and despite only 21 Tories rebelling yesterday, from what they were saying during the debate, many of the others still do not want a no-deal exit. No deal does not have a majority in the Tory party, or the public, so taking the party down that line would tear even more lumps off it.
Go for the (allegedly current plan) deal, unless we can't get one option, and Farage is promising to have someone standing against the Tories at every seat, which will remove the voting base Boris is relying on to get him a majority.
I really wish there was some way of finding out what the historians will say about this entire debacle in 100 years.
Chancellor commits another £2bn for no-deal Brexit planning
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...anning?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Just as well we have all this extra money available especially after we leave the EU to pay for this and give it all to the NHS, and to farmers and to deprived area etc etc etc.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Invest in cryogenics companies!
Geezertronic
Established Member
That is wholly wrong. Parliament overwhelmingly voted to trigger Article 50 following the referendum result - they didn't have to because as some commentators keep saying the referendum was advisory. if it was advisory, why did Parliament overwhelmingly vote to trigger Article 50?
My bad, the mess we are in is the fault of the remainers and the EU.
Bantamzen
Established Member
That's easy:
"In 2015, the government of the United Kingdom proposed a referendum to leave the European Union, and in 2016 52% of the voting electorate voted to leave. From then until 2019, successive Prime Ministers failed to agree deals that would satisfy all concerned parties. Then in late 2019, the UK government broke down, which led to several decades of yearly General Elections, and almost 20 further referendum to try and figure out what the phrase "Brexit means Brexit" actually meant. In 2057, in a desperate attempt to resolve this the UK launched a trillion pound space programme to make First Contact with a higher intelligence, despite the various clones of Brexit Founder Nigel Farage attempting to rig markets in order to buy nuclear weapons to supper such attempts.
20 years later the the UK Prime Minister, a clone derived from the DNA of such prominent politicians as Boris Jonhson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Kenneth Clarke, a small boil found on the backside of Jeremy Corbyn, Felix the Cat and some bloke who happened to pass the laboratory at the time, proudly announced that contact had been made. When pressed on the what message was, the Prime Minister admitted that the higher beings had seen the message, but pretended not be at home by hiding behind their intergalactic couch. From 2077 to the present day the UK has continued by having bi-weekly elections, referendums and bingo matches in an attempt to work out what "Hiding from Brexit behind the couch" means...."
<Wibble>
Geezertronic
Established Member
It's just as stupid to blame the 48% who voted Remain as it is to blame the 52% who voted Leave.
The EU is not to blame either because the EU were never going to negotiate properly and seriously with the UK Government when there is no pressure to do so, the continued actions of politicians to force that narrative, continue to extend the deadline, and remove No Deal off the table has seen to that
Politicians got us into this mess, have kept us in this mess, and seem intent on keeping us in this mess for the foreseeable future.
Indeed mate, in all honesty I was talking about the leave politicians and not the people who voted for it.
Howardh
Established Member
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Yes it is, we're all traitors, saboteurs, enemies of the
Can I have my t-shirt with all that on?
Bantamzen
Established Member
Sounds like a business opportunity....
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