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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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yrreb

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As a humble fare paying passenger, waiting for these new trains since December 2017, I am enormously disappointed. First used the new train today. Harsh ride, felt every rail joint and point, rock hard seat and seat not aligned with windows. Still overcrowded with the aisles full. Conductor announced plenty of seats free in front coaches but not so.
Which service did you travel on and do you know which seat approximately? I did notice on my first run last Thursday that bumps are slightly more noticeable and that's down to the fact that each carriage is around half the weight of a carriage on the Class 185s
 
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LittleAH

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Looked like plenty of seats available when the train passed me at Dewsbury....

Saw it this morning as it passed my train at Greenfield. Plenty of seats available for the 8am crunch at Huddersfield. For me the capacity of these trains is going to be a game changer.
 
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04/09 06:10: Nova 3 Diagram

The Nova 3 will be used for the following services today:
0555 MCV - LIV (1F48)
0656 LIV - SCA (1E25)
1041 SCA - LIV (1F62)
1356 LIV - SCA (1E39)
1744 SCA - LIV (1F76)
2056 LIV - SYB (1J53)

Thank you,
Control.
 

Pete_uk

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Is there still a requirement for driving trailers to be weighed brown to prevent them from coming off the rails if they hit a cow or two?
 

notlob.divad

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04/09 06:10: Nova 3 Diagram

The Nova 3 will be used for the following services today:
0555 MCV - LIV (1F48)
0656 LIV - SCA (1E25)
1041 SCA - LIV (1F62)
1356 LIV - SCA (1E39)
1744 SCA - LIV (1F76)
2056 LIV - SYB (1J53)

Thank you,
Control.

Thank you for this, If I can get out of Manchester Airport within 35 minutes this evening, I stand a chance of catching it. Big If though ....
 

FFFC 57

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Good question. I
Is there still a requirement for driving trailers to be weighed brown to prevent them from coming off the rails if they hit a cow or two?
have noticed the DT's have a large obstacle deflector compared to the Class 68 end.
 

bengley

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As a humble fare paying passenger, waiting for these new trains since December 2017, I am enormously disappointed. First used the new train today. Harsh ride, felt every rail joint and point, rock hard seat and seat not aligned with windows. Still overcrowded with the aisles full. Conductor announced plenty of seats free in front coaches but not so.

Cut the trains a bit of slack. The track is awful for much of the route too.
 

sprinterguy

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Is there still a requirement for driving trailers to be weighed brown to prevent them from coming off the rails if they hit a cow or two?
I'm not sure of the answer, but at 32.9 tonnes the mark 5 DTs must be amongst the lightest 100mph+ driving vehicles (The mark 5s are 125mph capable) in the UK.

For comparison:
Mark 2F DBSO: 34t
Mark 4 DVT: 43.5t

Class 180 DMS: 51.4t
Class 220 DMF: 50.9t

Class 350 DMS: 44.2t
Class 390 DMS: 54.5t
Class 395: PDTS: 46.7t

Class 802 PDTS: 48.0t

Only the 100mph maximum Stadler FLIRTs have driving cars that weigh in at less than a mark 5 DT.
 

bengley

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The Mk5a stock is plated for 100mph maximum. Is it possible that mods (including extra weight adding to the DT) may be required to allow speeds higher than 100mph?
 

sprinterguy

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The Mk5a stock is plated for 100mph maximum. Is it possible that mods (including extra weight adding to the DT) may be required to allow speeds higher than 100mph?
That's interesting. Early press releases on the new trains certainly stated that the mark 5 stock would be capable of running at 125mph at a future point if required.
 

37201xoIM

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Exactly right. I'm sure with regular use Mk5a sets will settle down once all components are bedded in properly.
Agreed. And by the way, am I the only one to be pretty impressed that in this day 'n age we can introduce 22ish-metre coaches that weigh this little? I had to double-check the figures were correct - of course this contributes to the power-weight ratio that is better than a 185 (and miles better than an 802 on diesel!), hence the impressive acceleration of the train.

Separately, I'm sure it's correct that the stock is 125mph-capable, but don't know whether minor mods would be required to enable this.
 

Spartacus

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That's interesting. Early press releases on the new trains certainly stated that the mark 5 stock would be capable of running at 125mph at a future point if required.

I think I recall someone saying it was a maintenance thing as much as anything. If they were plated 125mph they’d have to be maintained to that standard even though they wouldn’t be running at that, which would cost a not inconsiderable sum above what would be required for 100mph.
 

nicolaboo

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Cut the trains a bit of slack. The track is awful for much of the route too.
Hopefully the majority of the bumps will be helped by the supposed upgrade of the transpennine route, depending on what actually gets done.
 

daikilo

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I'm not sure of the answer, but at 32.9 tonnes the mark 5 DTs must be amongst the lightest 100mph+ driving vehicles (The mark 5s are 125mph capable) in the UK.

For comparison:
Mark 2F DBSO: 34t
Mark 4 DVT: 43.5t

Class 180 DMS: 51.4t
Class 220 DMF: 50.9t

Class 350 DMS: 44.2t
Class 390 DMS: 54.5t
Class 395: PDTS: 46.7t

Class 802 PDTS: 48.0t

Only the 100mph maximum Stadler FLIRTs have driving cars that weigh in at less than a mark 5 DT.

The accident which lead to the increases being placed on the weight of leading trailers was, IIRC, at no more than 95mph. The fact is that moving trains and stationary solid objects don't go well together even if the speed is below 100mph. A couple or three cows in the 4 foot will have significant consequences at any high speed so let's not worry about it assuming the best protection is to ensure the cows cannot be there. Further, it is not the weight of the leading vehicle which counts, but how well and fast it deviates the object.
 

Erniescooper

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For 125mph running you would be required to change the coupling to the Loco to Buckeye and change the brake pads from an organic pad to a sintered pad, no increase in weight required
 

FFFC 57

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I think I recall someone saying it was a maintenance thing as much as anything. If they were plated 125mph they’d have to be maintained to that standard even though they wouldn’t be running at that, which would cost a not inconsiderable sum above what would be required for 100mph.
Not sure about that one. 390's have 140mph top speed in the cab but run only at 125mph, they are maintained as a 125mph unit.
Also the 68 has a 100mph top speed and no 125 mph locos are compatible with Mk5a service trains.
 

tpjm

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Cut the trains a bit of slack. The track is awful for much of the route too.
Prime example, I did Paddington to Swindon the other day on an 800. Outward was fine, return journey was like a rollercoaster. Track makes a huge difference, especially if you’re used to HMS 185.
 

fowler9

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At the end of the day the Mark 5A I sat in to Manchester had a bit of a firm ride but was much nicer than the 185 I stood in on the way home to Liverpool.
 

sjpowermac

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Prime example, I did Paddington to Swindon the other day on an 800. Outward was fine, return journey was like a rollercoaster. Track makes a huge difference, especially if you’re used to HMS 185.
With a Class 185 sounds and motion from the track are masked by the underfloor engine.

I’ve posted a highly scientific assessment of Mk5a ride quality below. What’s good enough for Roger Ford of ‘Modern Railways’ is good enough for me;)

The test took place on the Scarborough to York line, not renowned for the quality of track;)

I’ve found the ride to be excellent and certainly much quieter than a 185.

I should add, I’m sat right over the bogie, I think it was Seat 70.

 

FFFC 57

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With a Class 185 sounds and motion from the track are masked by the underfloor engine.

I’ve posted a highly scientific assessment of Mk5a ride quality below. What’s good enough for Roger Ford of ‘Modern Railways’ is good enough for me;)

The test took place on the Scarborough to York line, not renowned for the quality of track;)

I’ve found the ride to be excellent and certainly much quieter than a 185.

I should add, I’m sat right over the bogie, I think it was Seat 70.

Classic bit of science. I think your test proves a decent ride quality of the new trains.
 

Solent&Wessex

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I had my first ride on the Mk5As today, from Leeds to Liverpool and back.

I found the seats firm, but actually quite comfortable. Far more comfortable than some others - I didn't find the back rest as badly shaped as some new seats for a start.

The ride quality was excellent, far smoother than a 185. The various lurches, bumps and jolts on a 185 when you get thrown all over the place (such as Batley, Mirfield, Heaton Lodge) were just non existent despite going at line speed. The only down side was the noise from the bogies / suspension, which were making a rattling / knocking noise almost continuously in every coach I went in. I am told this is an annoying feature of the new Northern CAF units too?

The toilet was working well, with a well designed layout and seeming quite spacious for such a small cupboard! Nice to have hot hand wash water, unlike the 185s which only dispense cold water!

The air con was just the right temperature and I didn't find the breeze from the air vents below the windows intrusive at all.

The PA announcements were clear and audible and not too loud. The previously reported fault with the announcements cutting out part way through the announcement still exists though, annoyingly. The clocks on the internal display screens were 1 hour fast, and the times shown for the calling points were 1 hour behind what they actually should be. Some of the messages did not work - such as the one which shows departure times of connecting services - this just showed a blank screen.

Loading through the end doors did not seem to cause any additional dwell time.

Overall, highly impressed, apart from the annoying bogie / suspension rattle.
 
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