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Stagecoach West/South West/South Wales - Fleet News & Discussion

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Dr Day

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Unfortunately services have been cancelled all afternoon so whilst I’m personally prepared for a few teething problems this is the last straw for many ‘regulars’ on this route.
 
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spw24

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its a shame as we worked really hard to keep services running as we all knew the state of the roads and all little diversions for most sections of the route. this coming weekend should be fun as well with the bridge shut all weekend we used to step up each bus so that it left on time from Bristol but I don't know what Stagecoach will do to combat delays. we could have spent a couple of hours putting them straight on the operations of this route but they are just left to get on with it.
 

Dai Corner

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Unfortunately services have been cancelled all afternoon so whilst I’m personally prepared for a few teething problems this is the last straw for many ‘regulars’ on this route.

The Prince of Wales Bridge has been closed all day. I know the route uses the other bridge but there will have been more congestion than usual. No excuse for cancelling all afternoon services though.
 

robk23oxf

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It will take some time to accumulate service reliability data, timetable changes could then be made to rectify any issues relating to the timetable. In terms of drivers getting lost, it can happen when these drivers are driving the route for the first time.
 

Dai Corner

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It will take some time to accumulate service reliability data, timetable changes could then be made to rectify any issues relating to the timetable. In terms of drivers getting lost, it can happen when these drivers are driving the route for the first time.

But First have their data collected over many years operating the same timetable and could have taken the Stagecoach drivers out to learn the route as spw24 says

its a shame as we worked really hard to keep services running as we all knew the state of the roads and all little diversions for most sections of the route. this coming weekend should be fun as well with the bridge shut all weekend we used to step up each bus so that it left on time from Bristol but I don't know what Stagecoach will do to combat delays. we could have spent a couple of hours putting them straight on the operations of this route but they are just left to get on with it.
 

carlberry

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Unfortunately services have been cancelled all afternoon so whilst I’m personally prepared for a few teething problems this is the last straw for many ‘regulars’ on this route.
Whilst First may have been able to cope slightly better (as the regular drivers would have been involved) I doubt the end result would have been that different given the complete loss of the larger bridge and consequential traffic jams at every junction.
 

Dr Day

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Appreciate yesterday was a 'bad day', but closure of the M4 bridge does happen from time to time and the passengers greatly appreciated the efforts of the First drivers, Pat, Darren, Phil, Jim, Steve and the rest of the guys to find alternative routes via Easter Compton etc, plus the ability to 'step up'. Hopefully the Stagecoach drivers and behind the scenes controllers will get to know the route better and restore passenger confidence in the service - rumours are there may be competition from NAT coming.

(apologies going off the fleet thread topic)
 

DaveHarries

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Whilst First may have been able to cope slightly better (as the regular drivers would have been involved) I doubt the end result would have been that different given the complete loss of the larger bridge and consequential traffic jams at every junction.
Appreciate yesterday was a 'bad day', but closure of the M4 bridge does happen from time to time and the passengers greatly appreciated the efforts of the First drivers, Pat, Darren, Phil, Jim, Steve and the rest of the guys to find alternative routes via Easter Compton etc, plus the ability to 'step up'. Hopefully the Stagecoach drivers and behind the scenes controllers will get to know the route better and restore passenger confidence in the service - rumours are there may be competition from NAT coming.
Yesterday was a tough one. The idea of diverting via. Easter Compton would normally work but I think there would not have been much in terms of diversionary routes.

I drive for a living, I was keeping my ears open on the travel news and the A403 (Avonmouth - Aust) was reported to be very bad so that would have put paid to Easter Compton. In addition to that the M49 (PoW Bridge to M5 J18A) was closed as well and the M32 was bad during the evening peak. The M4 East was, I heard, back to the Brynglas Tunnels at one point while the M4 West was back to at least Almondsbury. Diversionary routes would have been in short supply unless you took the bus via. Gloucester and the A48 so I do have some sympathy for Stagecoach on this one.

Dave
 

carlberry

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Appreciate yesterday was a 'bad day', but closure of the M4 bridge does happen from time to time and the passengers greatly appreciated the efforts of the First drivers, Pat, Darren, Phil, Jim, Steve and the rest of the guys to find alternative routes via Easter Compton etc, plus the ability to 'step up'. Hopefully the Stagecoach drivers and behind the scenes controllers will get to know the route better and restore passenger confidence in the service - rumours are there may be competition from NAT coming.

(apologies going off the fleet thread topic)
Competing on a service that First chucked in! Good luck with that (Without it's just the Newport-Chepstow bit).
 

Philip adams

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its a shame as we worked really hard to keep services running as we all knew the state of the roads and all little diversions for most sections of the route. this coming weekend should be fun as well with the bridge shut all weekend we used to step up each bus so that it left on time from Bristol but I don't know what Stagecoach will do to combat delays. we could have spent a couple of hours putting them straight on the operations of this route but they are just left to get on with it.
Hi how about new services for stagecoach west like:
T23 gloucester,lydney,chepstow,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
T63 gloucester,newent,ross on wye,monmouth,raglan,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
New transcymru routes
What do you think,i think its a great idea
I say do it stagecoach west
 

carlberry

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Hi how about new services for stagecoach west like:
T23 gloucester,lydney,chepstow,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
T63 gloucester,newent,ross on wye,monmouth,raglan,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
New transcymru routes
What do you think,i think its a great idea
TrawsCymru is run by the Welsh government and they tend to avoid duplicating rail services. As most of the routes already require subsidy it's unlikely that joining them together is going to make things any better (even if the councils would be quite happy with the reduced costs).
 

daodao

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Hi how about new services for stagecoach west like:
T23 gloucester,lydney,chepstow,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
T63 gloucester,newent,ross on wye,monmouth,raglan,newport and cardiff runs every 2 hours
New transcymru routes
What do you think,i think its a great idea

Red & White (latterly National Welsh) route 73 used to run hourly from Cardiff to Gloucester via Chepstow until the late 1980s, taking nearly 3 hours. I remember travelling on it once in late 1986 from Cardiff (Dumfries Place) to Newport (Royal Gwent Hospital). The Cardiff-Newport section was cancelled shortly before the demise of National Welsh and then the rest of the route was broken up. Newport Transport still run route 73 between Newport and Chepstow via Caerwent and have reintroduced a fast route from Newport to Cardiff (X30). I can't envisage any demand for a through route, which would be adversely affected in terms of timekeeping by traffic congestion particularly in the major cities.
 

siriain

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Been meaning to reply to this thread since I saw the changes announced.
I do find this surprising. Yes its very clever how the routes tie up the various bits Stagecoach were left with when James Bevan gave up, such as Cinderford to Blakeney, Lydney to Chepstow, Chepstow to Beachley etc but it is quite a cutback on the main routes. There are now two buses per hour from Gloucester to Cinderford via the direct route, from September there will be one. The extra one every two hours via Mitcheldean isn't much of a replacement. I don't see why this is running - there is already an hourly service from Gloucester to Mitcheldean now the 33 has been diverted. Between Cinderford and Coleford there are now two buses an hour via two direct routes taking 31 minutes. From September one of these routes goes down to three journeys between peaks (30 becoming 25) and the other vanishes altogether (31). As a replacement the 22 runs via Ruardean and takes 38 minutes. Ruardean used to have an hourly service to Gloucester - the old 24 via Mitcheldean, but this has been steadily reduced to a handful of journeys. Why is it now getting such an uplift in service? And is there so little traffic through to Coleford that this is justified?
It remains to be seen if all of these changes prove to be successful. However, one missing link for years has been the lack of a through service from Gloucester to Monmouth via Cinderford and Coleford. One option that would complement the new network would be to take the 24 via Mitcheldean and run it from Cinderford to Monmouth, preferably running hourly. Other long standing missing links that need looking at are from Coleford to Chepstow and (for tourists) to Symonds Yat Rock.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Red & White (latterly National Welsh) route 73 used to run hourly from Cardiff to Gloucester via Chepstow until the late 1980s, taking nearly 3 hours. I remember travelling on it once in late 1986 from Cardiff (Dumfries Place) to Newport (Royal Gwent Hospital). The Cardiff-Newport section was cancelled shortly before the demise of National Welsh and then the rest of the route was broken up. Newport Transport still run route 73 between Newport and Chepstow via Caerwent and have reintroduced a fast route from Newport to Cardiff (X30). I can't envisage any demand for a through route, which would be adversely affected in terms of timekeeping by traffic congestion particularly in the major cities.

Not certain when the 73 ceased running to Cardiff but wonder if the parallel rail service really provides that facility. Lydney to Cardiff c.50 mins rather than twice that on the bus.

For certain what a "T63 gloucester,newent,ross on wye,monmouth,raglan,newport and Cardiff" service would give on the first bit and, of course, most of it would be in England rather than Wales. Seem to recall that there was an X49 that ran a few times a day from Hereford to Cardiff via Monmouth. Guess it may have died at deregulation? That might make more sense in terms of combining the 36 and the 60 if you wanted a longer distance enhanced service for that part of Wales?

It remains to be seen if all of these changes prove to be successful. However, one missing link for years has been the lack of a through service from Gloucester to Monmouth via Cinderford and Coleford. One option that would complement the new network would be to take the 24 via Mitcheldean and run it from Cinderford to Monmouth, preferably running hourly. Other long standing missing links that need looking at are from Coleford to Chepstow and (for tourists) to Symonds Yat Rock.

To be honest, the Forest of Dean has proven over many years that it's a hard place to run buses. The Coleford to Monmouth service is tendered (I think) so an hourly service to Cinderford is unlikely TBH.
 

iantherev

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The X49 Hereford - Cardiff Service was indeed a casualty of deregulation. Very popular on Hereford market day, carried a lot of fresh air at other times from my recollection.
 

carlberry

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It remains to be seen if all of these changes prove to be successful. However, one missing link for years has been the lack of a through service from Gloucester to Monmouth via Cinderford and Coleford. One option that would complement the new network would be to take the 24 via Mitcheldean and run it from Cinderford to Monmouth, preferably running hourly. Other long standing missing links that need looking at are from Coleford to Chepstow and (for tourists) to Symonds Yat Rock.
I think Coleford to Chepstow was a victim of MAP back in the 1980s.
Symonds Yat rock used to have a service in the 1960s and somebody tried an open top service in the Forest that included it a few years ago however it only lasted one season. Even with a lot of promotion it's unlikely to trouble a minibus on the best of days and, mostly, would carry fresh air.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I think Coleford to Chepstow was a victim of MAP back in the 1980s.
Symonds Yat rock used to have a service in the 1960s and somebody tried an open top service in the Forest that included it a few years ago however it only lasted one season. Even with a lot of promotion it's unlikely to trouble a minibus on the best of days and, mostly, would carry fresh air.

On flickr, David Flett captured the last days of National Welsh MWs on services in the area. He highlights that there was a MAP scheme in October 1980. Suspect it was that which saw the 29 Chepstow to Coleford scrapped. There was also a market day service 52 from Monmouth to Symonds Yat.
 

carlberry

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On flickr, David Flett captured the last days of National Welsh MWs on services in the area. He highlights that there was a MAP scheme in October 1980. Suspect it was that which saw the 29 Chepstow to Coleford scrapped. There was also a market day service 52 from Monmouth to Symonds Yat.
'Wyedean', it introduced more deckers into the area (ex Cardiff Fleetlines) including on the Chepstow-Monmouth route (nowadays they'd have lost the top deck within a few miles of Monmouth!). Happy days!

Nurse, my medication has run out again, Nurse, NURSE!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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'Wyedean', it introduced more deckers into the area (ex Cardiff Fleetlines) including on the Chepstow-Monmouth route (nowadays they'd have lost the top deck within a few miles of Monmouth!). Happy days!

Nurse, my medication has run out again, Nurse, NURSE!

Indeed, WYEDEAN was the MAP to rationalise the operations at Monmouth and Cinderford depots. When you look at the size of the sites, they were massive areas of real estate for a relatively small number of vehicles.

IIRC, the other MAPs were Beaconsedge (Brecon and Aber), Barrivale (Barry), Gwent Vales (Tredegar, Brynmawr, Cross Keys and Cwmbran), GlynOgwr (Bridgend), New Rhondda (Rhondda). Probably missed one or two out there
 

carlberry

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Indeed, WYEDEAN was the MAP to rationalise the operations at Monmouth and Cinderford depots. When you look at the size of the sites, they were massive areas of real estate for a relatively small number of vehicles.

IIRC, the other MAPs were Beaconsedge (Brecon and Aber), Barrivale (Barry), Gwent Vales (Tredegar, Brynmawr, Cross Keys and Cwmbran), GlynOgwr (Bridgend), New Rhondda (Rhondda). Probably missed one or two out there
CynonDare is the only other one I can think of (Aberdare), with the connected 'TransGlam' identity.
The owner of the preserved National Welsh Leyland National had a full set of MAP identities made up on magnetic vinyls so he can change the vinyls each time it gets displayed, with an appropriate service number.
As you said a side benefit of the exercise was the number of depots that could be closed and resulting land sales.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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CynonDare is the only other one I can think of (Aberdare), with the connected 'TransGlam' identity.
The owner of the preserved National Welsh Leyland National had a full set of MAP identities made up on magnetic vinyls so he can change the vinyls each time it gets displayed, with an appropriate service number.
As you said a side benefit of the exercise was the number of depots that could be closed and resulting land sales.

Thanks Carl - knew I'd missed at least one!!

Don't know if any depots got closed because of MAP schemes. Did Lydney depot go earlier?

I didn't get to explore the area until 1992/3 (about the time when Stagecoach were about to buy Red & White). At that time, the operations were run from Chepstow with a compound at Ross and 3 deckers outstationed at Beard's Coaches (?) in Cinderford and, I think, one mini outstationed in Monmouth. Routes were:

73 - Gloucester to Newport (via Lydney and Chepstow) - hourly
31 - Gloucester to Coleford (via Cinderford) - hourly
38 - Gloucester to Hereford (via Ross) - hourly
34 - Gloucester to Monmouth (via Newent and Ross) - two hourly
W1 - Monmouth to Wyesham - half hourly?
60 - Monmouth to Newport - two hourly
65 - Chepstow to Monmouth - infrequent
69 - Chepstow to Monmouth - two hourly

I think there was also a market day service to somewhere near St Briavels but I forget. Only the 38 had a Sunday service - one bus doing about 3 trips. Everything else in the Forest was with Dukes (who were busy growing their network), Cottrells with the 24, and a few other independents like Willetts? Bit of a change since then.
 

carlberry

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Thanks Carl - knew I'd missed at least one!!

Don't know if any depots got closed because of MAP schemes. Did Lydney depot go earlier?
From memory I associate the closures of Monmouth and Tredegar plus the ex Jones depot with the MAP era however that doesn't mean they that's actually true! Most of National Welsh got off fairly lightly with MAP however the Dean area lost a lot of vehicles and ever since it's been a case of watching the major operators contract then suddenly buy out another independent to expand again so the cycle can start again!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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From memory I associate the closures of Monmouth and Tredegar plus the ex Jones depot with the MAP era however that doesn't mean they that's actually true! Most of National Welsh got off fairly lightly with MAP however the Dean area lost a lot of vehicles and ever since it's been a case of watching the major operators contract then suddenly buy out another independent to expand again so the cycle can start again!

No, you’re right. Aberbeeg DID close because of Gwent Vales MAP. It did stay open for coaches for a little while after but essentially, MAP did for it.

However, Monmouth was still going https://flic.kr/p/bD517G though probably lost its maintenance facilities. EDIT: Iantherev confirms MAP did see it close.

Tredegar was also still going as it appears in the NBC in 1981 book (cracking book) with new VRs wearing Gwent Vales identities. Think it went c.1984.

Stagecoach have periodically recast their FoD operations as you say. They’ve bought out Dukes and Cotterells but then offloaded services as various times too. With this, outbases have come and gone. The 73 had a Lydney outbase and there was the ex Dukes depot at Berry Hill. Apparently they have one at Cinderford now.
 

iantherev

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Monmouth closed as a result of the Wyedean MAP scheme and Aberbeeg as part of the Gwent Vales scheme. Tredegar actually picked up most of the work from Aberbeeg and thus survived for a few more years.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Monmouth closed as a result of the Wyedean MAP scheme and Aberbeeg as part of the Gwent Vales scheme. Tredegar actually picked up most of the work from Aberbeeg and thus survived for a few more years.

Assume that they just closed the depot and used the yard as an outstation?

Edited my earlier post to reflect that; you’d know better than me.
 

Bristol LH

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No, you’re right. Aberbeeg DID close because of Gwent Vales MAP. It did stay open for coaches for a little while after but essentially, MAP did for it.

However, Monmouth was still going https://flic.kr/p/bD517G though probably lost its maintenance facilities. EDIT: Iantherev confirms MAP did see it close.

Tredegar was also still going as it appears in the NBC in 1981 book (cracking book) with new VRs wearing Gwent Vales identities. Think it went c.1984.

Stagecoach have periodically recast their FoD operations as you say. They’ve bought out Dukes and Cotterells but then offloaded services as various times too. With this, outbases have come and gone. The 73 had a Lydney outbase and there was the ex Dukes depot at Berry Hill. Apparently they have one at Cinderford now.

I believe that Stagecoach West vehicles park at Belfitts' base in the Coleford area, having previously parked at the Willetts depot.

In terms of National Welsh and MAP, the Bridgend area scheme was Glan Ogwr rather than GlynOgwr, and if I recall correctly, the Barrivale scheme allowed for the closure of Penarth Road depot in Cardiff, with all local bus work, including the X1 between Cardiff and Swansea, then based at Barry depot.
 

carlberry

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I believe that Stagecoach West vehicles park at Belfitts' base in the Coleford area, having previously parked at the Willetts depot.

In terms of National Welsh and MAP, the Bridgend area scheme was Glan Ogwr rather than GlynOgwr, and if I recall correctly, the Barrivale scheme allowed for the closure of Penarth Road depot in Cardiff, with all local bus work, including the X1 between Cardiff and Swansea, then based at Barry depot.
I realise this is less and less about Stagecoach and more like a nostalgia fest however from the book 'The rise and fall of National Welsh' by Viv Corbin:
Penarth Road depot closed 3/81 as a result of Barrivale MAP (followed two months later by the central works).
7/81 Abertillery (Jones) depot for sale.
10/81 Offers received on Ely, Penarth Road and ex Chepstow bus station sites.
9/83 Abergavenny depot closed.
11/83 Chepstow bus station sold
12/83 Monmouth depot closed.
10/84 Red and White name replaces Wye Dean (to try to get back on track!!)
3/85 Cinderford depot closed.
I cant find the details for Tredegar depot closing however it wasn't put up for sale until 1990 and wasn't sold until 1993.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I realise this is less and less about Stagecoach and more like a nostalgia fest however from the book 'The rise and fall of National Welsh' by Viv Corbin:
Penarth Road depot closed 3/81 as a result of Barrivale MAP (followed two months later by the central works).
7/81 Abertillery (Jones) depot for sale.
10/81 Offers received on Ely, Penarth Road and ex Chepstow bus station sites.
9/83 Abergavenny depot closed.
11/83 Chepstow bus station sold
12/83 Monmouth depot closed.
10/84 Red and White name replaces Wye Dean (to try to get back on track!!)
3/85 Cinderford depot closed.
I cant find the details for Tredegar depot closing however it wasn't put up for sale until 1990 and wasn't sold until 1993.
Really - didn’t think Tredegar lasted that long!

So for Abergavenny and Monmouth, they survived the MAP but it was a stay of execution! Of the current depots, it’s just Cwmbran and Brynmawr o/s that survive?

Sounds like a good book.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I believe that Stagecoach West vehicles park at Belfitts' base in the Coleford area, having previously parked at the Willetts depot.

In terms of National Welsh and MAP, the Bridgend area scheme was Glan Ogwr rather than GlynOgwr, and if I recall correctly, the Barrivale scheme allowed for the closure of Penarth Road depot in Cardiff, with all local bus work, including the X1 between Cardiff and Swansea, then based at Barry depot.
Whoops - bad enough with English let alone Welsh!!
 
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