OxtedSignaller
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Is there any truth to this? Struggling to find any other credible sources.
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RMT reporting Abellio to default on Scotrail franchise
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Deltic1961
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Scotrail aren't great. I bet Abellio have had their fingers burnt big time.
Delays in introducing the 385s
Utter shambles regarding HST refurbishment
Lots of major engineering works affecting numbers
Major problems with staffing
Poor fleet reliability .... multiple "train faults" every day
The trains just can't be relied on, and people now realise this. No consequential loss either (which is normal) and so so many people have missed concerts, nights out, sports events and even holidays. Once bitten twice shy and all that.
Fares are also stupidly expensive.
I did predict when Abellio took over from First if things didn't improve customers would walk away and here we are. If Abellio pull out and SG nationalise (which seems to be their thing right now) I can't see how that would make things any better in the short to medium term at all.
Delays in introducing the 385s
Utter shambles regarding HST refurbishment
Lots of major engineering works affecting numbers
Major problems with staffing
Poor fleet reliability .... multiple "train faults" every day
The trains just can't be relied on, and people now realise this. No consequential loss either (which is normal) and so so many people have missed concerts, nights out, sports events and even holidays. Once bitten twice shy and all that.
Fares are also stupidly expensive.
I did predict when Abellio took over from First if things didn't improve customers would walk away and here we are. If Abellio pull out and SG nationalise (which seems to be their thing right now) I can't see how that would make things any better in the short to medium term at all.
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When I was up there in the summer I was jealous of the 7 car electric services running every 15 mins between the two main cities, when you consider what runs between the two main cities in the north.
The service between London and Bristol is very good, actually.
PG
Established Member
Err... which rail atlas are you using?!!
Kite159
Veteran Member
Has Abellio HQ finally decided enough is enough with supporting the franchise and will break away? The Citylink coach network provides an alternative to the train for some of the busier routes
Cally McTrain will instantly solve any issues when they take over, what other proof do you need than the wonderful work on the Tyne & Wear Metro
Cally McTrain will instantly solve any issues when they take over, what other proof do you need than the wonderful work on the Tyne & Wear Metro
ScotRail are in the crosshairs of politics for years now
For me, I use the Argyle Line service to Glasgow Central LL and the service is generally fine
pdeaves
Established Member
Isn't a major part of the problem the work RMT members are doing? Not all, I know, but basic stuff like maintenance and at least trying to keep to time. The union leaders seem not to recognise their members' work.
route:oxford
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At the moment, the Scottish Government is able to enjoy the opaqueness of Transport Secretary, Transport Scotland, Scotrail Parntership, Scotrial and finally Abellio.
Despite all the noise about bringing it back into the public sector, they must be looking cautiously at the Mayor of London and TfL with concern that they might be seen as chiefly to blame for every delayed or cancelled train.
Despite all the noise about bringing it back into the public sector, they must be looking cautiously at the Mayor of London and TfL with concern that they might be seen as chiefly to blame for every delayed or cancelled train.
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farci
Member
As a rail-supporting Scottish passenger (sorry - customer!) may I ask the rail professionals on this board:
- TSSA on local radio after the recent Edinburgh Festival debacle gloating about Abellio HR policies
- implicationa above of RMT sabotage
Is there a political agenda here or just misplaced union attitudes?
Shouldn't we work together for a better railway which secures employment and keeps us 'passengers' willing to support investment in a transport mode which helps solve the climate emergency?
- TSSA on local radio after the recent Edinburgh Festival debacle gloating about Abellio HR policies
- implicationa above of RMT sabotage
Is there a political agenda here or just misplaced union attitudes?
Shouldn't we work together for a better railway which secures employment and keeps us 'passengers' willing to support investment in a transport mode which helps solve the climate emergency?
Are they? I thought they were stupidly cheap when I spent a couple of days in Glasgow. Glasgow to Ayr was something daft like £11 on a day return. 40 odd miles and a frequent fast service in a comfortable modern train.
You don't get value like that in East of England.
Yes we should. But they have contempt for people like us and they aren't going to change their ways.
In the Glasgow area they are cheap but not for journeys in many other areas, but this is really a topic for another thread.
adrock1976
Established Member
A Glasgow - Ayr journey is within a Passenger Transport Executive area (Strathclyde).
A fairer comparison would be to compare an East of England journey with another one in a non-PTE area.
PS See Yorkie's post.
fgwrich
Established Member
Fares are stupidly expensive? I'd hardly say so at all. The fares are ridiculously expensive around my local networks (GWR & SWR) and the standard of service from those two is far poorer than I've received from ScotRail. I did routes such as Inverness to Thurso for £19 (153 miles) and return this summer, Aberdeen to Edinburgh cost me similar, all the fleet were clean and smartly presented (bar the ex rather rancid ex GWR refurbished HST but that's a different story, and not ScotRails fault!). Maybe it's a case of better the devil you know for some, but if people think ScotRails fares are expensive, you should come and try some of ours! (PS, I'm partly writing this from another tired and scruffy 165 - as bad as the Haymarket 8 158s used to be).
Off-peak fares are pretty reasonable, some peak fares, e.g. Glasgow to Edinburgh are astronomical.
Interesting that the RMT want public (presumably CalMac) ownership when they’ve been in dispute with CalMac a few times over recent years.
Interesting that the RMT want public (presumably CalMac) ownership when they’ve been in dispute with CalMac a few times over recent years.
The RMT is saying they will default on passenger satisfation which is an interesting wording.
In reality this will mean a trip to TS to explain why passenger satisfaction is below target levels and remind TS about the ongoing improvement plan and how that is doing.
There does seem to be something in the claims about not meeting performance requirements, though I'm not sure exactly sure that there will be any actual effect on the company itself.
There is this evidence session from 27th March 2019 in the
Scottish parliament Rural Economy and Connectivity Commitee:
http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=12030
So unless I've misinterpreted it, they won't meet the required standard this year. But the Scottish government is apparently already aware of this and hasn't announced that it plans to strip the franchise. (There is an agreed plan for improving things)
Unless the RMT is referring to something more recent?
Edit: Unless they're looking at the National Rail Passenger Survey, but that seems to show +5 (%point) change over the last period. (Autumn 2018-Spring 2019)
There is this evidence session from 27th March 2019 in the
Scottish parliament Rural Economy and Connectivity Commitee:
http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=12030
So unless I've misinterpreted it, they won't meet the required standard this year. But the Scottish government is apparently already aware of this and hasn't announced that it plans to strip the franchise. (There is an agreed plan for improving things)
Unless the RMT is referring to something more recent?
Edit: Unless they're looking at the National Rail Passenger Survey, but that seems to show +5 (%point) change over the last period. (Autumn 2018-Spring 2019)
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PG
Established Member
May I suggest that the thread title implies (or I infer) that Abellio are going to default on the franchise whereas it now appears to be the case that Scotrail are not expected to hit their performance target.
Talk of defaulting on a franchise bring to mind two east-coast operators, NXEC or VTEC, which both defaulted and thus lost the franchise and that doesn't seem to be the case here with Abellio on the Scotrail franchise.
I'll apologise in advance if it is just my inference and others don't agree with my perspective.
Talk of defaulting on a franchise bring to mind two east-coast operators, NXEC or VTEC, which both defaulted and thus lost the franchise and that doesn't seem to be the case here with Abellio on the Scotrail franchise.
I'll apologise in advance if it is just my inference and others don't agree with my perspective.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Surely there are plenty of other operators that have failed to meet satisfaction performance targets that didn't lose their franchises? Customer satisfaction is the area where UK rail has always performed poorly.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Blaming engineering works for poor performance is more of a criticism of Network Rail rather than Abellio.
The alliance setup also blurs the distinction between (public) NR and (private) TOC.
I also regard a franchise "default" as a financial failure rather than an operational one.
The Dutch government could always pull the plug if they are tired of Abellio's Scotrail losses - but there would be implications for their other franchises.
Abellio possibly being fired by SG for poor performance is another issue altogether.
Are their performance figures much out of line with other TOCs, including publicly-owned LNER?
The alliance setup also blurs the distinction between (public) NR and (private) TOC.
I also regard a franchise "default" as a financial failure rather than an operational one.
The Dutch government could always pull the plug if they are tired of Abellio's Scotrail losses - but there would be implications for their other franchises.
Abellio possibly being fired by SG for poor performance is another issue altogether.
Are their performance figures much out of line with other TOCs, including publicly-owned LNER?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Scotrail's punctuality performance far exceeds that of LNER, but that's somewhat what you'd expect for an operator that runs commuter & regional services vs. a strictly long-distance express operator. How that translates to customer satisfaction, however, is ambiguous.
September was LNER's best performing month since they took over, at 85.1% PPM. Scotrail's performance has only been as low as that 6 times in almost the last four years.
Journeyman
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I think it's quite useful to the SNP to blame Westminster for things going badly in Scotland, so they will, even though Westminster has very little to do with transport policy in Scotland.
Deltic1961
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Scotrail was brought up in today's FMQs. Surprisingly Nicola blamed Network Rail and the fact it is not devolved. Shock.
That's 50 percent of the delays. The other half are purely down to the operator but she diverted the subject nicely.
She obviously doesn't know that Alex Hynes controls both Scotrail and Network Rail Scotland
That's 50 percent of the delays. The other half are purely down to the operator but she diverted the subject nicely.
She obviously doesn't know that Alex Hynes controls both Scotrail and Network Rail Scotland
Not forgetting the Unions suddenly rearing their head when they know votes are on the lines and can blame politicians for supposed failings.
The classic SNP response. Why things are going well: Scotland shoud take credit. Why things aren't: blame the UK.
I personally cannot see how Scotrail are possibly any worse than Northern given their well-publicised staffing issues and dilapidated rolling stock. And they're plodding on (albeit with rumours of an OoLR on standby)
PG
Established Member
I'd say it's fair bet that there's a few OoLRs currently on standby...
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