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Poll: Potential General Election: who are you voting for?

Potential October GE: Who will you vote for?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 84 19.1%

  • Labour

    Votes: 129 29.4%

  • SNP

    Votes: 29 6.6%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 4 0.9%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 130 29.6%

  • TIG

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • DUP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 2 0.5%

  • UUP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • SDLP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Green Party (or any local Green affiliate)

    Votes: 14 3.2%

  • Other independent or minor party (please state!)

    Votes: 3 0.7%

  • Spoiled ballot

    Votes: 7 1.6%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 13 3.0%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 24 5.5%
  • Total voters
    439
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Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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dosxuk said:
I'm struggling to decide if the Johnson/Cummings administration's tactics are actually strategic genius or utter stupidity.
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Cummings isn't an evil genius. David Cameron- yes, that David Cameron- referred to him as a "professional psychopath". And that's the thing with psychopaths, an inability to abide by the rules will take them a very long way and will give them the veneer of evil genius.
 
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Bantamzen

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AlterEgo said:
Boris will not resign.

He’s solely driven by personal ambition. If there was a way for him to manoeuvre himself to remain PM while still avoiding a disastrous no deal Brexit he would find it.

Boris enjoyed a comprehensive victory in the leadership election and can simply point to that.
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He may not have to, at this rate he'll have only a handful of MPs standing by him as more and more start to bail. Even with a non-aggression pact with the Brexiteers (which wouldn't last long after an election), the likely result would still be a hung Parliament, and more of the Tories ripping themselves apart. I think he's tried to bluff his way through this crisis, and that bluff has been called. Boris is a liability to the Tories and they will have find a way to chase him out.
 
Howardh

Howardh

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Apparently Johnson (Boris, not the sensible one) will be addressing us on TV later today. Remind me to watch the Teletubbies instead.
 
Kite159

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swj99 said:
Quite an easy decision for me. I'm not a millionaire and I care about people. On the basis that it's usually a 2 horse race and the fact I would never vote for a party which has allowed endless people to starve and die on the streets, I'll be voting labour.
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Don't worry under Labour we will all become millionaires...

... When hyperinflation takes hold after shaking that magical money tree so much it devalues the pound to the point that it's worth as much as a Venezuelan bolívar. :lol:
 
DynamicSpirit

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Kite159 said:
Don't worry under Labour we will all become millionaires...

... When hyperinflation takes hold after shaking that magical money tree so much it devalues the pound to the point that it's worth as much as a Venezuelan bolívar. :lol:
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To be fair, while I'm not really a fan of Corbyn, that is a petty ludicrous exaggeration. As I recall, the 2017 Labour manifesto was fairly firm on the principle that the Government would borrow money only for investment, while seeking to keep current expenditure and income balanced. I don't doubt that, under Labour, the deficit will grow somewhat, but I doubt it would be by a disastrous amount. And besides, unlike the Conservatives, Labour intends to avoid a no-deal Brexit: The No-deal Brexit the Conservatives seem determined to plunge us into could well cause a further substantial devaluation of the pound, which would be avoided under Labour.
 
Howardh

Howardh

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AlterEgo said:
Yep...this isn’t over by a long shot. Johnson is playing a dangerous and enormous chess game.
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And we are the pawns. If this were just a political game, or just those voting Brexit would benefit/suffer, we could all sit back, pour a large one and watch the plot unfold, knowing that when the credits roll we can have supper and toddle off to bed.
However those of us who simply want to carry on our lives just as before will suffer the consequences, one of which could be an extreme right-wing government.
 
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dosxuk

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Kite159 said:
When hyperinflation takes hold after shaking that magical money tree so much it devalues the pound to the point that it's worth as much as a Venezuelan bolívar. :lol:
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Is that the same tree Boris is shaking with all his might right now to try and distract the public from what's coming?
 
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Peter Kelford

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edwin_m said:
He's got as far as he has (which admittedly isn't very) by ignoring the "gentlemen's agreements" that are the basis of our "constitution" but aren't actually enforceable if someone chooses to go against them. Things like not threatening to game the date of an election to get what he wants, not proroguing Parliament for an unreasonable period, providing a teller for an amendment. Along with some fairly dispicable actions as Mayor of London (several tens of millions of public money wasted on the Garden Bridge) and the lies of the Leave campaign, it's clear he has no shame or conscience. We should have no expectation that he will do the "right thing", unless it also happens to be in his personal interest.

In a rational world an incoming government ought to have three priorities:
  • A referendum on Brexit
  • Electoral reform to make Westminster somewhere near proportional
  • Codifying the constitution so it is absolutely clear what governments can and can't do
I'm not confident we'll be back to a rational world any time soon.
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I completely concur. I can start listing some of his errors as Mayor of London:

  • A massive Cycle Superhighway network, which attracts few cyclists and makes pollution worse as cars sit in traffic (this probably served however to make his own cycling easier)
  • and more and more...

His government also seems to behave contemptuously in parliament.
 
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Journeyman

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404250 said:
I'm not that keen on him, but what is it that anti-corbyn people think he will do if PM that will be SO bad for the country?
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It's not what he will do as PM that's the problem, it's that he's so toxic to most people he'll never be PM in the first place.
 
Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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Kite159 said:
When hyperinflation takes hold after shaking that magical money tree so much it devalues the pound to the point that it's worth as much as a Venezuelan bolívar.
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The Tories, in nine years of "austerity", have almost doubled the UK national debt from £1tn to £1.8tn. At the same time they've also created £900bn of money from thin air in the form of quantitative easing.

I don't know how anyone can look at that and then have the sheer cheek to label Labour the party of the magic money tree!
 
DynamicSpirit

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Peter Kelford said:
I completely concur. I can start listing some of his errors as Mayor of London:

  • A massive Cycle Superhighway network, which attracts few cyclists and makes pollution worse as cars sit in traffic (this probably served however to make his own cycling easier)
  • .
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Boris has an awful record of lying, changing his mind, and often not achieving that much. But wouldn't criticise him for the cycle superhighways - other than that, which hindsight, they could've been more ambitious. They make many journeys much easier and safer for cyclists (not perfect but much better than what we had before). As for 'attracts few cyclists' - you clearly don't use the same stretches of superhighway that I use.
 
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Journeyman

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Arctic Troll said:
The Tories, in nine years of "austerity", have almost doubled the UK national debt from £1tn to £1.8tn. At the same time they've also created £900bn of money from thin air in the form of quantitative easing.

I don't know how anyone can look at that and then have the sheer cheek to label Labour the party of the magic money tree!
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The Tories have always been considered more fiscally responsible than Labour, and more a "safe pair of hands" generally. I have no idea where they get this reputation from - in all my years on this planet, every major political crisis I've ever seen can be laid at their feet.
 
433N

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Journeyman said:
The Tories have always been considered more fiscally responsible than Labour, and more a "safe pair of hands" generally. I have no idea where they get this reputation from - in all my years on this planet, every major political crisis I've ever seen can be laid at their feet.
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It is in the same book that states that all Britain's woes in the 70s were due to the unions ... and absolutely nothing to do with poor management.
 
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Grimsby town

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Kite159 said:
Don't worry under Labour we will all become millionaires...

... When hyperinflation takes hold after shaking that magical money tree so much it devalues the pound to the point that it's worth as much as a Venezuelan bolívar. :lol:
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There are many sticks that can be used to beat Corbyn but I believe labours 2017 manifesto had a large amount of input from Joseph Stiglitz. He is a Nobel Prize winning economist who has come up with a number of mainstream economic theories and models. He argues that it is in corporations interest to pay higher tax levels to allow investment in education, infrastructure and health all things that improve the quality and productivity of employees. I completely agree with him. As long as we aim to balance everyday spending with taxation (something the tories are threatening to stop doing), we can borrow money to finance infrastructure projects as we are far below the level at which these schemes stop paying for themselves through benefits to health, productivity and economic growth.
 
Kite159

Kite159

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Grimsby town said:
There are many sticks that can be used to beat Corbyn but I believe labours 2017 manifesto had a large amount of input from Joseph Stiglitz. He is a Nobel Prize winning economist who has come up with a number of mainstream economic theories and models. He argues that it is in corporations interest to pay higher tax levels to allow investment in education, infrastructure and health all things that improve the quality and productivity of employees. I completely agree with him. As long as we aim to balance everyday spending with taxation (something the tories are threatening to stop doing), we can borrow money to finance infrastructure projects as we are far below the level at which these schemes stop paying for themselves through benefits to health, productivity and economic growth.
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Ah the good "we will increase tax" levels, which will make some companies decide to move away from the UK all together or employ some more creative accounting to reduce their tax bill.

It's all good going after the mega-rich, but those mega-rich are better placed to upsticks and relocate to a more favourable country, then all of a sudden the increase tax burden comes down the chain to those deemed to be "rich", i.e. earning more than the average wage.
 
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Grimsby town

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Kite159 said:
Ah the good "we will increase tax" levels, which will make some companies decide to move away from the UK all together or employ some more creative accounting to reduce their tax bill.

It's all good going after the mega-rich, but those mega-rich are better placed to upsticks and relocate to a more favourable country, then all of a sudden the increase tax burden comes down the chain to those deemed to be "rich", i.e. earning more than the average wage.
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Its not really "going after" the mega rich, its simply about getting them to pay a fair share of their income compared to the less well off which is currently not the case. The UK currently has the lowest corporation tax of any comparable company in the world. Even the likes of the US have significantly higher rates of corporation tax. As soon as increasing taxes is mentioned, the right point to the laffer curve, but if we increased corporation tax up to 2010 levels, which would still be very similar to most neighbouring countries, I can hardly see a mass exodus. Consequently, revenues are likely to increase. This can then be invested into health, education and business grants to improve productivity of UK business.
 
DarloRich

DarloRich

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Grimsby town said:
Its not really "going after" the mega rich, its simply about getting them to pay a fair share of their income compared to the less well off which is currently not the case. The UK currently has the lowest corporation tax of any comparable company in the world. Even the likes of the US have significantly higher rates of corporation tax. As soon as increasing taxes is mentioned, the right point to the laffer curve, but if we increased corporation tax up to 2010 levels, which would still be very similar to most neighbouring countries, I can hardly see a mass exodus. Consequently, revenues are likely to increase. This can then be invested into health, education and business grants to improve productivity of UK business.
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As I said previously this is the massively naive assumption underpinning the last labour maifesto.

It assumes everyone will pay. They simply wont and the burden will be passed further down the chain.
 
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edwin_m

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Interesting piece from Sir John Curtice on the BBC, which unfortunately only appeared on one of the "live" feeds and I can't now find it so sorry I can't supply a quote. Arguing that although some Labour MPs represent Leave constituencies, the people in those constituencies who vote Labour are more likely to support remaining. And it's unlikely that Labour would attract voters whose main objective is to achieve Brexit, as there are other parties far more committed to doing that.

My comment not his: As there are few Labour-LibDem marginals and many Tory-Labour ones it's probably in Labour's best interests to come out fully in support of remaining - and even better if they got a pact with the other remain parties.
 
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Bald Rick

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Interesting poll results so far... of getting on for 200 votes cast, well over 40% are for Lib Dem.

This must tell us something about the Rail U.K. demographic!
 
Howardh

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OK, fair play to them, The Brexit Party have at least two transsex candidates that will stand should there be an election and they put candidates forward. I'll hold my hands up and admit I didn't think it was in them, and I can't think of any TS Libdem candidates, although maybe the LD's don't make a fuss of it. So although I hate their guts for taking my freedom of movement away, I will applaud that.
 
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Carlisle

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Howardh said:
OK, fair play to them, The Brexit Party have at least two transsex candidates that will stand should there be an election and they put candidates forward. I'll hold my hands up and admit I didn't think it was in them, and I can't think of any TS Libdem candidates, although maybe the LD's don't make a fuss of it. So although I hate their guts for taking my freedom of movement away, I will applaud that.
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Is that a true commitment to diversity or just a clever attempt at PR ? . After all even the regime running Nazi Germany famously claimed to champion certain noble causes with health, fitness & animal rights being amongst them .
 
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telstarbox

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DarloRich said:
As I said previously this is the massively naive assumption underpinning the last labour maifesto.

It assumes everyone will pay. They simply wont and the burden will be passed further down the chain.
Click to expand...
Then why try to change anything at all? You may as well then say don't join a trade union as the bosses will just say no to everything (which I'm sure you wouldn't agree with).
 
Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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DarloRich said:
It assumes everyone will pay. They simply wont and the burden will be passed further down the chain
Click to expand...

Kite159 said:
Ah the good "we will increase tax" levels, which will make some companies decide to move away from the UK all together or employ some more creative accounting to reduce their tax bill.
Click to expand...

Close the loopholes and they will have to pay. You're telling me Starbucks or Vodafone will withdraw from the UK market because of a bit more tax on their profit margin? They'll walk away from all their profit because they'll lose a slice? Aye right.

And, on a wider subject, if the likes of Amazon aren't going to pay for the facilities they use, why do we want them here anyway? Parasites aren't healthy things to support.

And loopholes can be easily closed. HMRC are now aggressively going after people paid through employee trusts after the Tories changed the law- and made the change retrospective. The Tories will close loopholes and collect aggressively- just they'll only do it against the little people.

Let's see if Google leaves France, eh?
 
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