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TfL Fare Evasion Opportunities with Contactless

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ijmad

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What Zone 1 stations have no barriers?
The only ones I can think of are Moorgate (which is only at the temporary entrance which will be remodelled when the works are done), Bank (via a lift), Waterloo (Waterloo & City line only), Tower Gateway DLR, and some of the platforms on the Mainline station at Euston and Paddington (the former only offering a couple of destinations within the validity of CPC acceptance or used only by long distance trains, the latter almost always used only by long distance trains).

Euston Square - the lift on the Westbound Platform has no barriers, just a big sign reminding you to touch in/out.
 
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Mojo

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Euston Square - the lift on the Westbound Platform has no barriers, just a big sign reminding you to touch in/out.
The gateline was remodelled here well over a year ago, probably longer, and the lift is on the paid side.
 

jellybaby

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Obviously plain-clothes inspectors can also monitor Oyster/Contactless card readers (at stations without barriers), and ask to see the paper ticket/season ticket of anyone who walks past without touching in or out.
I assume only on the way in.

Once I've passed the readers on the way out I'm not in a compulsory fare area so I don't think I have any obligation to show my ticket if asked. Am I incorrect?
 

Mojo

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I assume only on the way in.

Once I've passed the readers on the way out I'm not in a compulsory fare area so I don't think I have any obligation to show my ticket if asked. Am I incorrect?
Yes you are incorrect. You are required to present your ticket, when requested by an authorised person, at any time.

Outside of LU/DLR/Overground/TfL Rail, very few stations contain a Compulsory ticket area. A Compulsory ticket area has nothing to do with an area where staff check tickets, it is an area where holding tickets is mandatory (unless one of the exceptions applies).
 

jellybaby

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Yes you are incorrect. You are required to present your ticket, when requested by an authorised person, at any time.
Source? The TfL byelaws are more than a little vague. Can I be required to show the ticket for the journey I made a week ago last Tuesday?

Outside of LU/DLR/Overground/TfL Rail, very few stations contain a Compulsory ticket area.
But this thread is about TfL and Contactless. Are there any non-compulsory ticket areas where Contactless is valid?

In what area can an authorised member of staff check a ticket and where is that defined?
 

jellybaby

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A few hundred National Rail stations in London?
I thought all the National Rail stations in London were Penalty Fares Stations. Hunting around a bit it seems I was wrong about the ones on the Greenford Branch (although not Greenford) but a few hundred?
 

transmanche

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I thought all the National Rail stations in London were Penalty Fares Stations.
Not all Penalty Fare Stations have Compulsory Ticket Areas. The two are not synonymous.

As @Mojo said, other than TfL-operated stations, very few stations have Compulsory Ticket Areas.
 

jellybaby

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Not all Penalty Fare Stations have Compulsory Ticket Areas. The two are not synonymous.

Okay, got that.

So where can an authorised person inspect a persons ticket? If it is anywhere on station property then barriers that retain tickets are a problem which is probably why I assumed the barrier line, or location of readers where there aren't barriers, is relevant.

Going back to Contactless I'm uncomfortable with someone in plain clothes well away from the 'barrier line' late at night on a dark station wanting to see my credit card.
 

transmanche

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I'm uncomfortable with someone in plain clothes well away from the 'barrier line' late at night on a dark station wanting to see my credit card.
They will, of course, show their official ID before expecting you to show any card or device.
 

Mojo

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So where can an authorised person inspect a persons ticket? If it is anywhere on station property then barriers that retain tickets are a problem which is probably why I assumed the barrier line, or location of readers where there aren't barriers, is relevant.
The TfL Railway byelaws apply to trains, track and stations. The Railway byelaws have a similar application.

If you have alighted from a train then staff may request to inspect your ticket at any time.
 

jellybaby

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They will, of course, show their official ID before expecting you to show any card or device.
Most of the ticket inspectors I encounter don't show their badge first. It's also difficult to verify if it is an official badge or something they printed at home if you haven't seen one before.
 

Mojo

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Most of the ticket inspectors I encounter don't show their badge first. It's also difficult to verify if it is an official badge or something they printed at home if you haven't seen one before.
Given that LU’s Revenue Inspectors badges are made of metal, they spend a lot of their time in uniform, the fact all LU managed stations are staffed 24/7, and the fact there isn’t really anything to gain by being a fake ticket inspector, I’m not sure what the concern is.
 

jellybaby

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Given that LU’s Revenue Inspectors badges are made of metal
Random metal badges are available all over the place. You might know what a real one looks like but I don't.

they spend a lot of their time in uniform

They probably spend a lot of time in their pyjamas too. That isn't relevant when a stranger approaches you.

the fact all LU managed stations are staffed 24/7

It can be difficult to find a member of staff though. I've had to lift buggies over barriers when I was unable to find anyone to open the manual gate.

the fact there isn’t really anything to gain by being a fake ticket inspector

It's an avenue to 'confiscate a card for investigation' from someone. Along the lines of the people that phone you up to tell you your credit card has been compromised and then come and collect it. Perhaps demand a penalty fare and pocket the cash. Bogus utility callers are a problem, bogus ticket inspectors could be similar.
 

philthetube

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It can be difficult to find a member of staff but you can be pretty sure that a staff member would notice a bogus revenue checker at the station, and a real one would have to sign in with the supervisor.
 

simple simon

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Thats interesting. Presumably they will still need barriers though or the simple solution for fare evaders would be to switch their phone off or leave it at home.

Only some passengers will be involved in the trial so its likely to be the more honest people who are less likely to want to dodge paying fares and are willing to act as guinea pigs in case the system has any glitches.
 
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