Trivia - how many electrified railways in the UK have closed and been abandoned?

Journeyman · 26 Aug 2019

The surface alignment to Island Gardens on the DLR.

RailUK Forums

randyrippley · 26 Aug 2019

They're not abandoned, but I doubt platforms 1 & 2 at Lancaster have ever held an electric train

Dr_Paul · 26 Aug 2019

Does anyone know why the third-rail electrified services in and around Newcastle were discontinued?

rogercov · 26 Aug 2019

Dr_Paul said:
Does anyone know why the third-rail electrified services in and around Newcastle were discontinued?

Wikipedia implies that it was an economic decision based on:
"Falling passenger numbers, rising costs, and the need to renew life expired infrastructure and rolling stock"

Fleetwood Boy · 26 Aug 2019

randyrippley said:
They're not abandoned, but I doubt platforms 1 & 2 at Lancaster have ever held an electric train

Can’t say for sure, but I’ve a sneaking feeling that London-Barrow trains will have changed locos at Lancaster with the bays a possible location to pop them out of the way? That being said, in that era the bays were both regularly in more regular use than now, with Morecambe shuttles and the Barrow DMU starting at Lancaster.

randyrippley · 26 Aug 2019

Fleetwood Boy said:
Can’t say for sure, but I’ve a sneaking feeling that London-Barrow trains will have changed locos at Lancaster with the bays a possible location to pop them out of the way? That being said, in that era the bays were both regularly in more regular use than now, with Morecambe shuttles and the Barrow DMU starting at Lancaster.

Not just Barrow - the Windermere DMUs as well.
I never saw a loco change there - I only ever saw that done at Preston, where they also did changes for Blackpool, and also southbound for Scotland-Manchester services

d9009alycidon · 27 Aug 2019

randyrippley said:
Not just Barrow - the Windermere DMUs as well.
I never saw a loco change there - I only ever saw that done at Preston, where they also did changes for Blackpool, and also southbound for Scotland-Manchester services

What about the Glasgow - Morcambe Summer Dated trains, I went there on a Mystex once, I am sure that we went via Lancaster witha loco change there but cannot be certain.

Jim

Dr_Paul · 27 Aug 2019

rogercov said:
Wikipedia implies that it was an economic decision based on:
"Falling passenger numbers, rising costs, and the need to renew life expired infrastructure and rolling stock"

Thanks for that -- I guess that as these third-rail routes were geographically limited to the Newcastle area, it wasn't seen as worthwhile to keep them going. The Southern Region did get some useful second-hand EMUs from Newcastle, which I think lasted pretty much until the end of the EPBs.

Springs Branch · 27 Aug 2019

Has anyone mentioned the NER's Shildon to Newport line?

Although, to be fair, this one had been de-electrified and reverted to steam for a long while before final abandonment.

mailbyrail · 27 Aug 2019

Shildon to Newport was in post number 3!

StewLane · 27 Aug 2019

Acton Town to South Acton ( single car underground train)
Wimbledon to West Croydon (3rd rail removed and now used by Tramlink using overhead)
Post Office Railway ( now partly used for a tourist attraction)
East London line into the original Shoreditch station
Broad St
Northern heights scheme, electrified but never used for passengers

xotGD · 27 Aug 2019

I guess we should include the tram network in just about every town and city in the country.

randyrippley · 27 Aug 2019

d9009alycidon said:
What about the Glasgow - Morcambe Summer Dated trains, I went there on a Mystex once, I am sure that we went via Lancaster witha loco change there but cannot be certain.

Jim

Didn't know they ran. I would have guessed at Carnforth being more likely, running via the Hest Bank curve but I don't know.
How long ago was this?

Dr Hoo · 27 Aug 2019

Dr_Paul said:
Thanks for that -- I guess that as these third-rail routes were geographically limited to the Newcastle area, it wasn't seen as worthwhile to keep them going. The Southern Region did get some useful second-hand EMUs from Newcastle, which I think lasted pretty much until the end of the EPBs.

As I understand it, one of the major problems with the Tyneside electrics was the unfavourable electricity consumption profile. As a heavily peaked network it needed the most power when both industry and domestic use was also at its highest. (Think of 0800 on a weekday morning in January with factories powering up, lights still on and so forth.). So BR was charged on the basis that the most inefficient generating sets had to be kept for their load. There was virtually no electric freight to smooth the profile. (The Quayside Branch and the odd electric parcels van weren’t quite in the ‘double-headed Freightliners over Shap at 0230’ category.)

A lot of the fixed apparatus was getting old and due for renewal and there were ‘spare’ DMUs being cascaded from some lines that were closing. The EPBs were much newer than the bulk of the fleet and could indeed form their own useful cascade to the Southern.

AlistairCowell · 27 Aug 2019

Woodhead Line Main Line between Manchester and Sheffield / Wath. It was uniquely electrified at 1500vDC and EM1 (Class 76) and EM2 (Class 77) used to run.

The east of Hadfield closed in 1981.

Shimbleshanks · 28 Aug 2019

Wasn't there a bit of electrification in the Llechwedd slate quary in North Wales? I think at least one of the locos has survived.

d9009alycidon · 28 Aug 2019

randyrippley said:
Didn't know they ran. I would have guessed at Carnforth being more likely, running via the Hest Bank curve but I don't know.
How long ago was this?

It was October 1980 if my memory is correct, I can only remember that it was unusual in that it was not the normal Mk1 set used for a Glasgow Mystex, t was a Carlisle based Mk2 set, I only remember we had a 40 on the front at Morcambe, by that time in my life the notebooks tended to get put away for the journey home and the beers and cards came out!

Springs Branch · 28 Aug 2019

Fleetwood Boy said:
Can’t say for sure, but I’ve a sneaking feeling that London-Barrow trains will have changed locos at Lancaster with the bays a possible location to pop them out of the way?

d9009alycidon said:
What about the Glasgow - Morcambe Summer Dated trains, I went there on a Mystex once, I am sure that we went via Lancaster with a loco change there but cannot be certain.

A quick flick through Working Timetables for 1974 - 1976 (just after electrification of the northern WCML) answers these questions for the regular, timetabled trains:-

1M32 09:15 SO Glasgow C. to Morecambe
1S40 14:40 SO Morecambe to Glasgow C.

These trains were diesel-hauled throughout via the G&SW and Shap.
Ran non-stop between Carlisle & Morecambe via the Hest Bank/Bare Lane curve.
-------------------------------------------------------

1P79 18:05 Euston to Barrow-in-Furness
1A00 20:45 Barrow-in-Furness to Euston
1A30 07:45 SX Barrow-in-Furness to Euston

Loco changes were booked at Preston.
-------------------------------------------------------

1P54 23:45 Euston to Barrow-in-Furness.
1A14 08:50 SO Barrow-in-Furness to Euston

Loco changes were booked at Lancaster (despite the down overnight train ex-Euston having just spent 35 minutes in the platform at Preston).

Waldgrun · 28 Aug 2019

Does the Ramsgate Tunnel Railway count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_Railway

30907 · 28 Aug 2019

Waldgrun said:
Does the Ramsgate Tunnel Railway count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_Railway

Good one. I've travelled on it, but was only 7 or 8 so memories are vague. Anyone else remember it?

Thebaz · 29 Aug 2019

[QUOTE="30907, post: 4164272, member: 17239".]
Norwood Jn to Selhurst.[/QUOTE]

Not abandoned. Still electrified and still in daily use (though I'm not sure there's ever been a scheduled passenger service.)

341o2 · 29 Aug 2019

Shimbleshanks said:
Wasn't there a bit of electrification in the Llechwedd slate quary in North Wales? I think at least one of the locos has survived.

Yes, they had a mixture of battery electric and 2 locos for overhead wire.

Journeyman · 6 Sep 2019

Dr_Paul said:
Thanks for that -- I guess that as these third-rail routes were geographically limited to the Newcastle area, it wasn't seen as worthwhile to keep them going. The Southern Region did get some useful second-hand EMUs from Newcastle, which I think lasted pretty much until the end of the EPBs.

I think it's fair to say that the EMUs were much cheaper to operate than steam, but as soon as DMUs came along, it was much easier to justify using those rather than maintaining increasingly old and unreliable electric trains and infrastructure. The fleet was much more flexible and could be used elsewhere, of course.

jfollows · 6 Sep 2019

Springs Branch said:
A quick flick through Working Timetables for 1974 - 1976 (just after electrification of the northern WCML) answers these questions for the regular, timetabled trains:-

1M32 09:15 SO Glasgow C. to Morecambe

1S40 14:40 SO Morecambe to Glasgow C.

These trains were diesel-hauled throughout via the G&SW and Shap.
Ran non-stop between Carlisle & Morecambe via the Hest Bank/Bare Lane curve.
-------------------------------------------------------

I went on 1S40 once in the late 1970s, post electrification and as far as Carlisle, and if my memory is correct it was a class 40 throughout and a declassified early mark 2 BFK (first composite) behind the engine, it was something of a noisy and enjoyable journey climbing Shap.

It wasn't busy and was something of a holdover "traditional" service from times when many people in Glasgow made a habit of holidaying in Morecambe in the summer.

AndrewE · 6 Sep 2019

341o2 said:
Yes, they [Llechwedd] had a mixture of battery electric and 2 locos for overhead wire.

I bet it didn't compete with this one

for interest...

bishdunster · 6 Sep 2019

AndrewE said:
I bet it didn't compete with this one

for interest...

how to cut electrification costs on HS2 !!!!!! o_O

geoffk · 8 Sep 2019

StewLane said:
Acton Town to South Acton ( single car underground train)
Wimbledon to West Croydon (3rd rail removed and now used by Tramlink using overhead)
Post Office Railway ( now partly used for a tourist attraction)
East London line into the original Shoreditch station
Broad St
Northern heights scheme, electrified but never used for passengers

Also South Acton - Kew Bridge (LMS passenger service withdrawn 1940 and line de-electrified, but still in use for freight) - is that correct please , anyone with more local knowledge?

Dr_Paul · 9 Sep 2019

geoffk said:
Also South Acton - Kew Bridge (LMS passenger service withdrawn 1940 and line de-electrified, but still in use for freight) - is that correct please , anyone with more local knowledge?

The South Acton to Kew Bridge line was electrified in 1916 and then de-electrified, as stated above, in 1940. I don't know whether the junction with the LSWR at Kew Bridge was electrified; as far as I know there was no through running for passenger services, they all terminated at Kew Bridge. My 1922 Bradshaw shows that roughly one in three North London Line services from Broad Street through to South Acton went to Kew Bridge, the other two went to Richmond.

geoffk · 9 Sep 2019

Dr_Paul said:
The South Acton to Kew Bridge line was electrified in 1916 and then de-electrified, as stated above, in 1940. I don't know whether the junction with the LSWR at Kew Bridge was electrified; as far as I know there was no through running for passenger services, they all terminated at Kew Bridge. My 1922 Bradshaw shows that roughly one in three North London Line services from Broad Street through to South Acton went to Kew Bridge, the other two went to Richmond.

Thanks, my knowledge of the area a bit sketchy.

Ken H · 9 Sep 2019

Old Hounslow town branch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounslow_Town_tube_station

Trivia - how many electrified railways in the UK have closed and been abandoned?

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