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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Cesarcollie

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You mentioned ADL being more adapted to suit current market needs (ie lightweight integral bus) and ADL taking on former Wright costumers like First. ADLs market share is large and I can only see it expanding.
My question: Will a new ADL factory be built? (might be a bit optimistic), how will ADL respond to extra demand?

I doubt that’ll be needed. First of all, orders are well down currently for all manufacturers so there’s plenty of slack in the system. Secondly, ADL have become masters at sub-contracting building of certain parts/components/sections, and that is a practice that can be scaled up (or down) as needed. So if demand does increase beyond the capacity of Guildford/Scarborough/Falkirk, then can probably create space by outsourcing. Or of course introducing additional shifts.
 
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Mikey C

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Agree with all of the above, but another factor is the feast-and- famine ordering from the London franchised companies. In addition to the Borismasters, there were a lot of wright bodied Volvos put into service up until two years ago, but very little since for any manufacturer. Maybe Wrights could get a contract for mid- life refurbishment of Borismasters.

By pushing their own integral products, I suspect Wrights lost some of the goodwill they had with Volvo who sought another bodywork supplier, and as a result MCV came in and took much of the work for bodying Volvo double deckers in London
 

F Great Eastern

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They have 3x Streetdecks and 3x Volvo / Gemini hybrids as well as part of a trial.

ADL haven't won a single tender in Ireland since a requirement for maintenance and spares and servicing was brought in as part of the tender as they don't have a dealer support network in Ireland.

Volvo have a massive one and have the vast majority of the bus and coach market both public and private sewn up and Wright have agreements with Mercedes dealers to support Streetlite products in Ireland as well.
 

Swimbar

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A post on another forum stating that deliveries from Wright's to Arriva Yorkshire have stopped, as Wright's have gone into administration!
 

LOL The Irony

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A post on another forum stating that deliveries from Wright's to Arriva Yorkshire have stopped, as Wright's have gone into administration!
I think it would've been in the news by now if it was true. A multinational British company going into administration would be all over the news.
 

Jordan Adam

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I think it would've been in the news by now if it was true. A multinational British company going into administration would be all over the news.

Agreed, i think as a general rule of thumb Wrightbus have not went in to administration until there's an official press release stating otherwise!

A post on another forum stating that deliveries from Wright's to Arriva Yorkshire have stopped, as Wright's have gone into administration!

That being said.... It was being mentioned last week that 4 Streetdecks had arrived for Arriva but the rest that were due to come hadn't came. Could they perhaps be related to Wrightbus wanting operators to pay for buses up front?
 

DaveHarries

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I think it would've been in the news by now if it was true. A multinational British company going into administration would be all over the news.
Indeed it would. I am a radio enthusiast and was listening to the Irish broadcaster RTE on the radio here in my part of the UK: no mention of Wrightbus going into Administration and I hope for the workforce at Ballymena - as I trust we all do - that there is no truth to Wrightbus going into administration.

Dave
 
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37114

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Could they perhaps be related to Wrightbus wanting operators to pay for buses up front?

Unlikely unless things have materially changed from when the order was signed as payment terms would have been agreed then
 

Eyersey468

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Unlikely unless things have materially changed from when the order was signed as payment terms would have been agreed then
Don't most operators get vehicles on some kind of finance anyway, be it HP, an operating lease etc?
 

37114

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Don't most operators get vehicles on some kind of finance anyway, be it HP, an operating lease etc?
Yes but not always via the manufacturer. Either way it is unlikely that Wright would withhold supply as they will be wanting the cash flow as quick as poss.

There could be a number of innocent reasons why delivery of the batch referenced in post #367 is not yet completed from factory shutdown for summer holidays, boat capacity to bring them over etc.
 

Mwanesh

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Dealer support is easy to set up. If ADL get enough orders in Ireland they can just set up an inhouse maintenance at one of the depots and then have mobile workshops all over the place. They have done it in Mexico. ADL integrals are Cummins powered. There is a Cummins dealership in Dublin.
 

Mikey C

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Dealer support is easy to set up. If ADL get enough orders in Ireland they can just set up an inhouse maintenance at one of the depots and then have mobile workshops all over the place. They have done it in Mexico. ADL integrals are Cummins powered. There is a Cummins dealership in Dublin.

Yes seems weird that ADL can sell and maintain buses around the world, but not in Ireland!
 

CM

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Yes seems weird that ADL can sell and maintain buses around the world, but not in Ireland!

They do sell buses in Ireland though, pretty sure there is plenty of Plaxton bodied coaches over there.
 

F Great Eastern

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They do sell buses in Ireland though, pretty sure there is plenty of Plaxton bodied coaches over there.

Indeed, they are all on Volvo chassis and are supported by the Volvo dealer network in Ireland which ias massive which is why Volvo time and time again win all the big contracts. They have a huge dealer network in Ireland, nobody else comes close to it of any mark. Irish Commercials alone support over 1,500 vehicles on maintenance and spares and have two massive centres where they can work on dozens of vehicles at a time both for trucks and buses. The other marques don't have anywhere near that capacity.

Of course they could build the extra capacity, but to do that costs a lot of money which has to be reflected in the amount that they bid for a tender, which means that Volvo are easily able to beat them on price unless they are willing to invest huge sums in facilities and take the hit without passing that cost on in the tender. Previous bids from other marques than Volvo or Wright for city buses have not won tenders under the current formula because apparently they were very uncompetitive on cost or they failed to score highly enough on the overall package.

Yes seems weird that ADL can sell and maintain buses around the world, but not in Ireland!

That's because you don't understand the Irish market at all and the way the vast majority of vehicles are ordered by a transport authority on a tender basis where a certain level of dealer support needs to be provided with certain facilities, to carry out heavy maintenance, spares etc. The tenders to be awarded could involve up to 200 vehicles a year and the support of them.

There's currently a tender out for producing and supporting 600 vehicles over a 4-5 year period and very high SLA required in relation to the aftermarket support. ADL i

It's not like the UK where First, Stagecoach and Arriva buy whatever they feel like. 95% of vehicles for Dublin Bus (over 1,000 vehicles) Bus Eireann (several hundred) and Go-Ahead Ireland (over 150) are procured by tender and tender only and not via the open market and the majority of maintenance is done in-house.

There's only two manufacturers with any real scale in Ireland and that is Volvo through their massive dealer network which dwarfs any of the other marques or Wright who are based on the Island of Ireland and have an agreement with Mercedes who have an extensive dealer network in Ireland also that Wright are being able to tap into. They didn't go with Daimler as a partner by accident, they did so because of their support network.

The only large private operators of note that buy new vehicles on the open market in Ireland on a regular basis are Bernard Kavanagh (approx 10-15 a year) and First (10 a year or so) all of whom also go with Volvo, because in their experience they are the only people who are able to give them the back-up and support that they require. Go and ask the staff that work in these companies why they go with Volvo and everyone one of them will tell you the dealer network.
 
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LOL The Irony

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Sky is reporting potential job losses
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-bus-maker-wrightbus-in-urgent-rescue-talks-11808861
The Ballymena-based 'Boris Bus' maker Wrightbus will this weekend hold last-ditch talks with a prominent Irish transport executive in a bid to stave off collapse.

Sky News has learnt that Darren Donnelly has emerged as the leading contender to acquire Wrightbus, which employs about 1400 people and counts Transport for London (TfL) among its biggest customers.


Sources said that without a rescue deal being concluded by next week, the company could be forced to appoint administrators.

The news comes just seven weeks after Boris Johnson told the House of Commons that the government would do "everything we can" to salvage Wrightbus's future.

Asked by the DUP MP Ian Paisley whether ministers would step in to save the company, the prime minister said: "It was of great value to the people of this country and I think it's a great company and we will make sure, I give my assurance, we will do everything we can to ensure the future of that great UK company."


It was unclear on Friday evening whether the government had any formal role in discussions about rescuing Wrightbus.

The Routemasters commissioned by Mr Johnson during his tenure as Mayor of London, which became known as 'Boris Buses' because of their distinctive look, are made by Wrightbus.


Talks between Mr Donnelly and Wrightbus's advisers are understood to have accelerated in recent days amid fading hopes of a takeover by Weichai, a subsidiary of the Chinese company Shandong Heavy Industry.

A source close to Weichai said it remained possible that it could acquire Wrightbus but conceded that the possibility had begun to recede.

A number of other bidders are also said to have walked away from the process amid a series of deadlines this week.


Mr Donnelly is a former co-chairman of and shareholder in Retlan Group, a manufacturer of articulated trucks.

Retlan was sold to a Chinese buyer, CIMC Vehicles, in 2016.

The urgency of the talks involving the fate of Wrightbus underline the importance of its role as one of Northern Ireland's most prominent exporters.

If Wrightbus did collapse, it would be a severe blow to the local economy following job losses at Bombardier, the aerospace group, and the crisis at shipbuilder Harland and Wolff.

Sky News revealed in July that Wrightbus had hired Deloitte, the professional services firm, to court potential buyers after a financial downturn that has left it facing heavy losses.

Annualised losses are currently running to approximately £15m, and the company may need a capital injection of at least £30m, insider said in July.

Wrightbus has had a presence in Ballymena for decades.

Sir William Wright, who founded the company with his father in 1946, was knighted in last year's New Year Honours list for services to the bus industry and the UK economy.

In its current form, Wright Group became the world's first developer of a hybrid-electric double-decker bus in 2006.

Wright Group, which also counts Volvo and the Kowloon Motor Bus company in Hong Kong among its big export customers, has already been forced into making redundancies.

In June last year, it said it was axing 95 jobs across its operations in a move which angered union representatives at Unite.

That followed an identical round of cuts three months earlier.

In addition to its bus-making unit, Wright Group encompasses a chassis design arm, EN-Drive.

Neither Wright Group nor Mr Donnelly could be reached for comment, while Deloitte declined to comment.
 

Volvodart

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The potential buyer mentioned above has now withdrawn from looking at purchasing Wrightbus.
 
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Robertj21a

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Sounds as if the possible buyers are all doing their due diligence, and not liking what they find.
 

37114

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I Feel for the employees who must be deeply worried at this time so hope for them somebody rescues Wrightbus. That said I do sadly think that as per my post earlier in this thread the UK can't sustain 3 domestic bus builders so hope if the worst happens ADL and optare benefit rather than an influx of MCVs and the like filling the void...
 

MotCO

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"The son of JCB billionaire tycoon Lord Bamford is racing to strike a deal to salvage “Boris Bus” maker Wrightbus, The Telegraph can reveal.

Jo Bamford is in talks to rescue at least part of the Northern Irish bus builder after a rescue attempt by local businessman Darren Donnelly collapsed on Monday."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-board-rescue-bid-boris-bus-maker-wrightbus/

Maybe this will be the lifeline?
 

Mikey C

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It's bizarre how Wrights are always called "Boris Bus" maker Wrightbus, as if that was their only product, or that their struggles were caused by the Boris Bus (or because TfL are not buying any more)

Their decision to go for integral buses is surely more their downfall, the Streetlite has been a bit problematic while MCV have stepped in to form a close relationship with Volvo, one which Wrights used to have. MCV bodied Volvo double deckers are all over North London now, work which 5 years ago would have gone to Wrights...
 

Jordan Adam

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It's bizarre how Wrights are always called "Boris Bus" maker Wrightbus, as if that was their only product, or that their struggles were caused by the Boris Bus (or because TfL are not buying any more)

Their decision to go for integral buses is surely more their downfall, the Streetlite has been a bit problematic while MCV have stepped in to form a close relationship with Volvo, one which Wrights used to have. MCV bodied Volvo double deckers are all over North London now, work which 5 years ago would have gone to Wrights...

Perhaps what doesn't help either is the fact that in the last 12 Months Volvo haven't sold a single B5TL to the UK mainland. So Wright's only "popular" decker offerings are the B5LH (Popular in London only) and the Streetdeck (limited popularity although Rotala have 70+ on order)
 

CM

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Perhaps what doesn't help either is the fact that in the last 12 Months Volvo haven't sold a single B5TL to the UK mainland. So Wright's only "popular" decker offerings are the B5LH (Popular in London only) and the Streetdeck (limited popularity although Rotala have 70+ on order)

Redline, Penwortham have taken a B5TL fairly recently although the only photo shows it sat in Heysham Docks - https://flic.kr/p/2gaEGag
 

Jordan Adam

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Redline, Penwortham have taken a B5TL fairly recently although the only photo shows it sat in Heysham Docks - https://flic.kr/p/2gaEGag

I must've missed that one! Thanks. Although 1 is still not good. In the UK the mainland the B5TL is pretty much a dead product. I suspect if Volvo brought out a B8TL (B8L is not suitable in a 2 axle decker formation) it may do better.
 

Volvodart

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"The son of JCB billionaire tycoon Lord Bamford is racing to strike a deal to salvage “Boris Bus” maker Wrightbus, The Telegraph can reveal.

Jo Bamford is in talks to rescue at least part of the Northern Irish bus builder after a rescue attempt by local businessman Darren Donnelly collapsed on Monday."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-board-rescue-bid-boris-bus-maker-wrightbus/

Maybe this will be the lifeline?

He has a business involved in hydrogen buses. Maybe it is only this part he is interested in?
 

Goldfish62

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He has a business involved in hydrogen buses. Maybe it is only this part he is interested in?
Yes, TfL have ordered 20 Wrightbus hydrogen double decks, which use his equipment. They are the first hydrogen double decks in the world.
 

Jordan Adam

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Yes, TfL have ordered 20 Wrightbus hydrogen double decks, which use his equipment. They are the first hydrogen double decks in the world.

Except they won't be as the 15 identical examples for Aberdeen purchased in the same order are "due" to be delivered first.
 

aswilliamsuk

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Perhaps what doesn't help either is the fact that in the last 12 Months Volvo haven't sold a single B5TL to the UK mainland. So Wright's only "popular" decker offerings are the B5LH (Popular in London only) and the Streetdeck (limited popularity although Rotala have 70+ on order)

Hang on, Rotala have how many on order? Clearly I'd missed that one.
 

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