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HST short sets and Mk4 short sets for the next 10 years

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S-Bahn

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Hi all, firstly this is not a question about interchanging MK3 and MK4 carriages.

The TOC's are retiring their HST's and 91/MK4 fleets soon. I'm aware GWR and Scot-rail are refurbishing HST's (been on one already - loved it) and TFW are getting some Mk4's and driving vans.

Based on rising demand for frequency and capacity nationally, as an interim solution pending the next generation of trains coming into existence, questions are:

1. How many short sets could be economically produced from the existing stock, taking into account age and corrosion etc?

2. What routes could they and should they run on?

3. What diesel locos are out there that could haul the Mk4 stock on the non-electrified network?
 
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Nym

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For (1),
The Mk.3A cars would be able to be formed up in any length you wanted.
Mk.3 cars would likely need an end car
Mk.4 cars need the "End Car" to couple to a locomotive, so logically, 30 or 31.

(2)
Whatever you like, intermediate distance services would work reaosnablly well, but any of them have already gotten new stock.

(3)
The Mk.4 DVTs and Carriages are been converted to run AAR controls through the carriages, so 59s, 66s, 67s, 68s. Although the former two without ETS would lack some supply to the hotel loads.
 

43096

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Hi all, firstly this is not a question about interchanging MK3 and MK4 carriages.

The TOC's are retiring their HST's and 91/MK4 fleets soon. I'm aware GWR and Scot-rail are refurbishing HST's (been on one already - loved it) and TFW are getting some Mk4's and driving vans.

Based on rising demand for frequency and capacity nationally, as an interim solution pending the next generation of trains coming into existence, questions are:

1. How many short sets could be economically produced from the existing stock, taking into account age and corrosion etc?
No more Mark 3 sets - simply too costly and time consuming to convert.
Mark 4 sets you are limited by the number of TOE and DVT vehicles - so 31 sets maximum.

2. What routes could they and should they run on?
Work best on longer distance Inter-City and "Regional Express" type work i.e. where end doors are less of an issue as fewer stops are made and where demand justifies 4/5 coach trains.

3. What diesel locos are out there that could haul the Mk4 stock on the non-electrified network?
Classes 67 and 68.
 

S-Bahn

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Routes that spring to mind

TFW - More sets for the North-South Wales Services.
GWR - A Swansea - Bristol - Exeter/Plymouth and Worcester -Exeter/Plymouth.
CC - Cardiff to Nottingham.
Northern - take your pic.
 

adamedwards

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Cardiff Manchester interworking with North Wales would seem logical. Also make Liverpool Chester part of this to create a Welsh borders regional network.
 

Peter Mugridge

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No more Mark 3 sets - simply too costly and time consuming to convert.
Mark 4 sets you are limited by the number of TOE and DVT vehicles - so 31 sets maximum.

30 I think - wasn't one of the DVTs written off at Heck?
 

GrimShady

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ETS can be supplied by fitting the DVT with a diesel gen set.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Would it not also be possible (whether it's financially feasible is another matter) to modify a non-end car to be able to couple to a loco?
 

Jonny

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Would it not also be possible (whether it's financially feasible is another matter) to modify a non-end car to be able to couple to a loco?

The engineering side is reasonably straightforward, depending on the condition of the rolling stock. The problem is whether it is worthwhile.
 
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