First Group: General Discussion

TheGrandWazoo · 7 Sep 2019

mic said:
buses 33732 / 69171 and 69224 have returned from lease to Diamond bus north west not sure where they are now

They were not fit for service so returned.

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bussnapperwm · 8 Sep 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
They were not fit for service so returned.

That's an irony in itself!

Tempest3K · 8 Sep 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
They were not fit for service so returned.

Like the majority of First's fleet then

TheGrandWazoo · 8 Sep 2019

Tempest3K said:
Like the majority of First's fleet then

Bedum tish!!

Suggest might be major unit failure.

Volvodart · 8 Sep 2019

Of course, there could be an agreement for buses with major work needing done being sent back rather than Rotala having to fork out for the work to be done.

TheGrandWazoo · 8 Sep 2019

Volvodart said:
Of course, there could be an agreement for buses with major work needing done being sent back rather than Rotala having to fork out for the work to be done.

Exactly.

Worth noting that First’s maintenance standards are generally considered good and haven’t attracted the attention of DVSA and/or TCs.

overthewater · 8 Sep 2019

Where did it call go wrong: How long was that woman kept in that job?

TheGrandWazoo · 8 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Where did it call go wrong: How long was that woman kept in that job?

We all know where it went wrong... Nothing to be gained from rehashing the argument.

Oh, and she worked for >10 years for First Bus.

GusB · 8 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Where did it call go wrong: How long was that woman kept in that job?

Which one? The bus driver?

overthewater · 8 Sep 2019

It was an awful advert and it did no one any favours

DragonEast · 8 Sep 2019

FB bit off much more than they could chew, then in the struggle to make ends meet focused entirely on efficiency (some will justify it out of necessity) but uncontrolled, which meant the interests of the company rather than (instead of as well as) the interests of the passengers. The consequence was that over time the whole thing became a charade.

You can't mimic the real thing. Something the marketing industry never learned. We (and not just First Bus) are still facing the consequences, everywhere.

Of course some bits may have been lucky enough to, more or less, escape the charade but it's the exception that proves the rule.

"We all know where it went wrong... Nothing to be gained from rehashing the argument." Spoken like a true disciple.

TheGrandWazoo · 8 Sep 2019

DragonEast said:
FB bit off much more than they could chew, then in the struggle to make ends meet focused entirely on efficiency (some will justify it out of necessity) but uncontrolled, which meant the interests of the company rather than (instead of as well as) the interests of the passengers. The consequence was that over time the whole thing became a charade.

You can't mimic the real thing. Something the marketing industry never learned. We (and not just First Bus) are still facing the consequences, everywhere.

Of course some bits may have been lucky enough to, more or less, escape the charade but it's the exception that proves the rule.

"We all know where it went wrong... Nothing to be gained from rehashing the argument." Spoken like a true disciple.

Disciple? I’ve been quite clear on my views on First Bus, Moir, the Laidlaw purchase etc and it’s not favourable.

However, after 344 pages and over 10000 posts, is someone going to provide something new and illuminating on how First Bus got into the mess they did?

I’m not holding out much hope but if you have some fresh, new facts then hell, why not?

If it’s the same as has been circulating on this thread for years, then what’s the fluffing point??

Alexbus12 · 9 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Where did it call go wrong: How long was that woman kept in that job?

I must be of a minority which liked this advert :lol:

cnjb8 · 9 Sep 2019

Alexbus12 said:
I must be of a minority which liked this advert

It made me cringe :oops:

Alexbus12 · 10 Sep 2019

Delete

overthewater · 13 Sep 2019

Has it been explained why First has been cut into 3? Scotland, North and South? Do we know who is in which group yet? However would it not have been better to have 3 areas in England?

South West: Cornwall, Dorset, somerset, Bristol, Worcester and south Wales.
South East: South coast, Berkshire, Essex, Leicester, Norfolk,
North: Yorkshire, York, Manchester

TheGrandWazoo · 13 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Has it been explained why First has been cut into 3? Scotland, North and South? Do we know who is in which group yet? However would it not have been better to have 3 areas in England?

South West: Cornwall, Dorset, somerset, Bristol, Worcester and south Wales.
South East: South coast, Berkshire, Essex, Leicester, Norfolk,
North: Yorkshire, York, Manchester

Have you closed Potteries down?

overthewater · 13 Sep 2019

No, however still dont know where it's been placed in the current set up!

Also does the new two English and Wales operate now cover senior management?

lastbus · 13 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Has it been explained why First has been cut into 3? Scotland, North and South? Do we know who is in which group yet? However would it not have been better to have 3 areas in England?

South West: Cornwall, Dorset, somerset, Bristol, Worcester and south Wales.
South East: South coast, Berkshire, Essex, Leicester, Norfolk,
North: Yorkshire, York, Manchester

Cost cutting.

Robertj21a · 13 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
No, however still dont know where it's been placed in the current set up!

Also does the new two English and Wales operate now cover senior management?

Potteries comes under Leicester, as does Worcester.

overthewater · 13 Sep 2019

So south then.

DragonEast · 14 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
No, however still dont know where it's been placed in the current set up!

Also does the new two English and Wales operate now cover senior management?

I doubt it has much to do with managing the business. More to do with disposing of it.

Presumably neither the existing shareholders, nor anyone else, was at all interested in taking the business as a whole. Quelle surprise. Chalk and cheese. Whether splitting it makes any, let alone all the, difference we shall see. To me a mess is still a mess, whichever way you cut it.

Didn't there used to be an old adage that said "if you can't convince them, confuse them". It seems to have become a Commandment. Perhaps someone (everyone?) might get around to looking behind the facade? That's when life becomes interesting.

Volvodart · 14 Sep 2019

I am not sure anything has changed from several years ago when the north south split actually happened. They had 2 mds and a few years ago Dave Alexander was put in charge of both. Scotland was part of North and Jarvis is just in charge of all of Scotland as part of North.

KGGXXXY · 15 Sep 2019

From The Telgraph, premium article (quoted below if your past your daily 1 limit)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/15/firstgroup-bus-business-set-buyouts-managers/
management buyouts mooted

FirstGroup bus business set for buyouts from its managers

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FirstGroup put its entire UK bus arm up for sale earlier this year CREDIT: PA/FIRSTGROUP

Oliver Gill

15 SEPTEMBER 2019 • 6:00AM

Follow

Embattled transport operator FirstGroup is poised to offload part of its bus business to its own managers amid mounting industry concern of a shake-up by politicians.

A string of management buyouts are said to be the frontrunners vying for First’s bus operations in Bristol, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall. A similar swoop by managers is also being pulled together in East Anglia.

First put its entire UK bus arm up for sale earlier this year alongside North American coach arm Greyhound, following pressure from its biggest shareholders.

The largest of these, activist Coast Capital Management, launched a campaign over the summer to oust half of the board. While Coast failed to attract majority shareholder support, First’s chairman and two other directors would later step down.
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Some investors want the company to also exit UK rail and concentrate on more profitable operations in the US.

FirstGroup’s plans to put its UK bus operations on the market were revealed after the earlier sale of part of its sprawling Manchester operation to rival Go-Ahead.

The bus industry remains fearful of tighter regulation across major cities. Manchester mayor Andy Burnham has already announced plans to run bus services using a franchise model. Others considering similar plans include Liverpool, Sheffield, Cambridge and Peterborough.

As a result, one industry source said: “No-one has much enthusiasm for buying bus companies.”

A FirstGroup spokesman said: “As we have stated, there are a number of potential outcomes for the separation of First Bus from the group and we are currently pursuing these options.

“Although we do not comment on market rumours or speculation, it would be incorrect at this stage to say any one outcome is more likely than another.”

Bradley · 15 Sep 2019

Does that mean First will still be around in Bristol Dorset Cornwall.

TheGrandWazoo · 15 Sep 2019

Bradley said:
Does that mean First will still be around in Bristol Dorset Cornwall.

No, you need to read the article.

They are saying that the management teams in Bristol, and in Dorset, and in Cornwall, and in East Anglia, are looking to buy the operations FROM First.

Bletchleyite · 15 Sep 2019

"No-one has much enthusiasm for buying bus companies" - because you just wait until they close it down then register the routes yourself...

overthewater · 15 Sep 2019

I'm surprised local manager want to buy any parts of the company, and believe bigger groups like Go Ahead and Nat Express would have a better chance.

Bradley · 15 Sep 2019

Thanks TheGrandWazoo when that happens as Buses Of Somerset is under Cornwall what will happen to First Taunton First Bridgwater First Yeovil.

overthewater · 15 Sep 2019

I do believe First Taunton First Bridgwater First Yeovil all come under Buses of Somerset.

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