TfW Class 170's

PHILIPE · 6 Sep 2019

anamyd said:
...? does this mean it could run late...?

Not now.

RailUK Forums

anamyd · 6 Sep 2019

PHILIPE said:
Not now.

thanks

2T57 · 6 Sep 2019

It's pathed via Bristol Parkway and the Severn Tunnel this week (due to Sunday's planned work in the Gloucester area).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62168/2019/09/08/advanced

anamyd · 6 Sep 2019

Cambrian359 said:
It’s been noted in the East Midlands franchise thread that tfw 170 aren’t staying.....only a couple of 2 cars will be staying with the rest gone within 2 years. Was this a known a fact? First time I’ve heard it.

all 12 170s, 5 230s and 3x 4+DVT Mk4 sets are staying alongside the 148 (total) brand new CAF and Stadler units until 2033 and beyond. the 30 (total) 142s/143s are being withdrawn in 2020 and the 109 (total) 150s/153s/158s/175s/769s are being withdrawn in 2023. why would it be in an East Midlands thread anyway...?

anamyd · 6 Sep 2019

2T57 said:
It's pathed via Bristol Parkway and the Severn Tunnel this week (due to Sunday's planned work in the Gloucester area).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62168/2019/09/08/advanced

isn't that the same link as in post 25...? thanks for the info though

Cambrian359 · 6 Sep 2019

anamyd said:
all 12 170s, 5 230s and 3x 4+DVT Mk4 sets are staying alongside the 148 (total) brand new CAF and Stadler units until 2033 and beyond. the 30 (total) 142s/143s are being withdrawn in 2020 and the 109 (total) 150s/153s/158s/175s/769s are being withdrawn in 2023. why would it be in an East Midlands thread anyway...?

That’s how I understood it to,post 1936 onwards in the ‘new trains for East Midlands franchise’ thread there’s a clicky picture

ABB125 · 7 Sep 2019

anamyd said:
all 12 170s, 5 230s and 3x 4+DVT Mk4 sets are staying alongside the 148 (total) brand new CAF and Stadler units until 2033 and beyond. the 30 (total) 142s/143s are being withdrawn in 2020 and the 109 (total) 150s/153s/158s/175s/769s are being withdrawn in 2023. why would it be in an East Midlands thread anyway...?

Cambrian359 said:
That’s how I understood it to,post 1936 onwards in the ‘new trains for East Midlands franchise’ thread there’s a clicky picture

According to Today's Railways, most of the 3-car class 170s will move from TfW to EMR. I was quite surprised when I read this, hence posting it in the EMR thread. How true it is I'm not sure, but Today's Railways is fairly reputable.

Here is another copy of the relevant text from the magazine.

anamyd · 7 Sep 2019

ABB125 said:
According to Today's Railways, most of the 3-car class 170s will move from TfW to EMR. I was quite surprised when I read this, hence posting it in the EMR thread. How true it is I'm not sure, but Today's Railways is fairly reputable.

erm, no...

PHILIPE · 7 Sep 2019

ABB125 said:
According to Today's Railways, most of the 3-car class 170s will move from TfW to EMR. I was quite surprised when I read this, hence posting it in the EMR thread. How true it is I'm not sure, but Today's Railways is fairly reputable.

When is that, 2022 ? They are only now just starting to transfer to TFW

stj · 7 Sep 2019

Are these units getting a re-furb before entering service?

anamyd · 7 Sep 2019

PHILIPE said:
When is that, 2022 ? They are only now just starting to transfer to TFW

that's what I thought! and as far as I"m concerned all 12 are staying until at least the end of the franchise

anamyd · 7 Sep 2019

ABB125 said:
Here is another copy of the relevant text from the magazine.

hmm... it may happen but I'd be surprised if it did and I'll believe it if I see it.

ABB125 · 7 Sep 2019

anamyd said:
hmm... it may happen but I'd be surprised if it did and I'll believe it if I see it.

Yes, it does seem a bit odd, but this is the railway industry after all...

6Gtraincrew · 7 Sep 2019

Looking at the rolling stock graph that was produced showing trains arriving and departing, the 170's stay the same width throughout which covers up to 2025 and beyond. Not that it was the easiest thing to read.

krus_aragon · 7 Sep 2019

6Gtraincrew said:
Looking at the rolling stock graph that was produced showing trains arriving and departing, the 170's stay the same width throughout which covers up to 2025 and beyond. Not that it was the easiest thing to read.

Agreed, according to that graph, the plan at the time was that the GA 170s would stay permanently. If the information/conjecture in Today's Railways is accurate, TfW must have another long-term plan for West Wales and the Heart of Wales if they're willing to part with up to three quarters of the 170 fleet (by carriage count) once the Civitys give them some slack.

My initial (unfounded) guesses would be either that they'd keep some of the 175s that would have gone off-lease, or that they'll take a follow-on order of Civitys to make up the difference.

Though in either case, if this news is accurate, I'd be surprised if TfW were to keep such a small microfleet of 2-car 170s on their books afterward.

(More conjecture: if TfW follow through on their plans for that new South Wales - Bath(?) service that popped up in the open access applications a few months back, perhaps that would have prompted them to look at alternatives to the 170s long-term.)

dk1 · 7 Sep 2019

170270 move cancelled & staying with GA for the time being.

anamyd · 7 Sep 2019

dk1 said:
170270 move cancelled & staying with GA for the time being.

Great, looks like I'm just going to have a really long spotting session at Central...

Cardiff123 · 7 Sep 2019

The rolling stock 'fleet composition' document on the TfW website states that TfW expect the ex-GA 170s to stay until the end of the current TfW franchise, with lease end dates with TfW of 16/10/2033.
https://tfw.gov.wales/projects/wales-and-borders-rail-service, click on 'documents', scroll down to 'Rolling stock tables', Appendix 1 - Composition of trains, and click on the 'fleet compsition' document.

I'd be interested to know where Today's Railways UK magazine have got their information from that TfW will be letting their 3-car 170s go after just 18 months in service in Wales.

PHILIPE · 7 Sep 2019

Cardiff123 said:
The rolling stock 'fleet composition' document on the TfW website states that TfW expect the ex-GA 170s to stay until the end of the current TfW franchise, with lease end dates with TfW of 16/10/2033.
https://tfw.gov.wales/projects/wales-and-borders-rail-service, click on 'documents', scroll down to 'Rolling stock tables', Appendix 1 - Composition of trains, and click on the 'fleet compsition' document.

I'd be interested to know where Today's Railways UK magazine have got their information from that TfW will be letting their 3-car 170s go after just 18 months in service in Wales.

It sounds like wibble

anamyd · 7 Sep 2019

it sounds like people are just desperate to pick out as many 170s as possible to go to EMR

krus_aragon · 8 Sep 2019

PHILIPE said:
It sounds like wibble

It could very well be wibble, or plans could have changed.

Once the Civitys arrive, TfW won't need to keep both the 170s and 175s. The plan at franchise start was that 12 170s would be enough. If they now want more stock, with EMR coveting 170s from everywhere, changing their mind for the 175s might be the easier option.

Rhydgaled · 8 Sep 2019

krus_aragon said:
Agreed, according to that graph, the plan at the time was that the GA 170s would stay permanently. If the information/conjecture in Today's Railways is accurate, TfW must have another long-term plan for West Wales and the Heart of Wales if they're willing to part with up to three quarters of the 170 fleet (by carriage count) once the Civitys give them some slack.

My initial (unfounded) guesses would be either that they'd keep some of the 175s that would have gone off-lease, or that they'll take a follow-on order of Civitys to make up the difference.

Though in either case, if this news is accurate, I'd be surprised if TfW were to keep such a small microfleet of 2-car 170s on their books afterward.

I agree, if any of the 170s are going then they might as well all go to avoid a micro-fleet, especially when the article suggested that the ones staying would be used on the HOWL which is a silly place to use 170s. Unless of course this is a ROSCO balancing exercise and so that EMR takes 170s from its prefered ROSCO with TfW getting different 170s from a different ROSCO as a replacement. Which ROSCOs own which 170s?

sd0733 · 8 Sep 2019

If they really were going to EMR surely it would make more sense to avoid the 170s completely and send them straight to EMR in exchange for a similar number of 158s to do an internal cascade at TfW to release 150s onto the Valleys.
Would enable EMR to get a head start with training and saves TfW doing much traction at all!

PHILIPE · 8 Sep 2019

sd0733 said:
If they really were going to EMR surely it would make more sense to avoid the 170s completely and send them straight to EMR in exchange for a similar number of 158s to do an internal cascade at TfW to release 150s onto the Valleys.
Would enable EMR to get a head start with training and saves TfW doing much traction at all!

Any transfer to EMR would be a long time in the future and TFW need whatever units that become available NOW

Cardiff123 · 8 Sep 2019

Does the Today's Railways magazine article quote a source on the TfW 170s transferring to EMR? E.g, "according to......" or "EMR/TfW director says......."

It would be more believable if it did. Otherwise the TfW website with details of what's happening when, says the first new trains are expected to enter service in Wales "by 2022" so TR have even got their dates wrong.
https://tfw.gov.wales/whats-happening-timeline

ABB125 · 8 Sep 2019

Cardiff123 said:
Does the Today's Railways magazine article quote a source on the TfW 170s transferring to EMR? E.g, "according to......" or "EMR/TfW director says......."

It would be more believable if it did. Otherwise the TfW website with details of what's happening when, says the first new trains are expected to enter service in Wales "by 2022" so TR have even got their dates wrong.
https://tfw.gov.wales/whats-happening-timeline

No, not that I can see.
Here is the text again.

swt_passenger · 8 Sep 2019

Cardiff123 said:
The rolling stock 'fleet composition' document on the TfW website states that TfW expect the ex-GA 170s to stay until the end of the current TfW franchise, with lease end dates with TfW of 16/10/2033.
https://tfw.gov.wales/projects/wales-and-borders-rail-service, click on 'documents', scroll down to 'Rolling stock tables', Appendix 1 - Composition of trains, and click on the 'fleet compsition' document.

I'd be interested to know where Today's Railways UK magazine have got their information from that TfW will be letting their 3-car 170s go after just 18 months in service in Wales.

Tony Miles of Modern Railways, posting in wnxx, has all but said it’s wrong, and he reckons it definitely is all the Southern units that are transferring...

Doveymain158 · 8 Sep 2019

170s are staying with TfW. They are being used to start with on Maesteg-Cheltenham’s and possibly Ebbw Vale. In 2022. They with operate in West Wales, HOWL & Shrewsbury-Crewe. The only 170s i can see EMR having are ex WMT ones when they are replaced by 196 Civities next year.

43096 · 8 Sep 2019

krus_aragon said:
Agreed, according to that graph, the plan at the time was that the GA 170s would stay permanently. If the information/conjecture in Today's Railways is accurate, TfW must have another long-term plan for West Wales and the Heart of Wales if they're willing to part with up to three quarters of the 170 fleet (by carriage count) once the Civitys give them some slack.

My initial (unfounded) guesses would be either that they'd keep some of the 175s that would have gone off-lease, or that they'll take a follow-on order of Civitys to make up the difference.

Though in either case, if this news is accurate, I'd be surprised if TfW were to keep such a small microfleet of 2-car 170s on their books afterward.

Or take more Mark 4 sets for the Marches and up the service quality with catering and first class. Plenty of Mark4s and Class 67s available.

Cardiff123 · 8 Sep 2019

43096 said:
Or take more Mark 4 sets for the Marches and up the service quality with catering and first class. Plenty of Mark4s and Class 67s available.

Mk4's running in West Wales, Heart of Wales and Shrewsbury - Crewe, with catering and first class? I think that's overkill

TfW Class 170's

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