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Class 710 LO

H

hwl

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supervc-10 said:
And likewise, the lighting up of the buttons is for those with hearing impairments.

IMO they all need to work like the Manchester MetroLink trams- the button can be pressed at any time, and at the next stop the door will open (assuming it's that side that has the platform). Once pressed, it flashes to register that it's going to open. I would imagine that this can help speed up dwell times too, especially on commuter routes where passengers become quite familiar with the regular stock.
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Except many Londoners are used to auto door open without pressing buttons including on Thameslink core so a national system isn't likely to happen as it isn't compatible with significant stock or modes of operation.
 
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Flinn Reed

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supervc-10 said:
And likewise, the lighting up of the buttons is for those with hearing impairments.

IMO they all need to work like the Manchester MetroLink trams- the button can be pressed at any time, and at the next stop the door will open (assuming it's that side that has the platform). Once pressed, it flashes to register that it's going to open. I would imagine that this can help speed up dwell times too, especially on commuter routes where passengers become quite familiar with the regular stock.
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This system could also be quite useful for passengers wishing to alight at request stops.

Could this also include a feature to indicate if passengers need to move to a different set of doors to get off, if the train is longer than the platform?
 
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87015

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Flinn Reed said:
Which diagram will the first 710 run on the Watford line?
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0629 off Watford, but not guaranteed. The unit is the driver training diagram with AM and PM passenger services to run IF drivers are available with route and traction knowledge.
 
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supervc-10

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hwl said:
Except many Londoners are used to auto door open without pressing buttons including on Thameslink core so a national system isn't likely to happen as it isn't compatible with significant stock or modes of operation.
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Automatic door opening (like on tubes and Thameslink) doesn't happen everywhere though. If you had a MetroLink style system, on the Thameslink services, if someone pressed the button nothing would be different. But outside of the core it can work like MetroLink does. Thameslink already has 2 door modes, which doesn't seem to cause issues.
 
Ethano92

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3141 said:
I don't think it's rude, and actually I didn't know there are trains with two tones for the doors, one for opening and one for closing. The trains I mostly use have a tone only for doors closing. And I think that's all that's needed in normal use. We know that when a train makes a scheduled stop at a station the doors will open, and a special sound before that happens is unnecessary.

As a more general comment, I think the colour red is very widely understood as meaning danger, watch out, something is about to happen. There isn't an equivalent sound with the same degree of widespread meaning. There are various series of fairly high-pitched beeps (this lorry is reversing, these doors are about to close, your microwave has now finished cooking), but not a standard one.
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Door open tones are now commonplace in London, some are very loud but doesn't bother me. It would make sense to have a standardised tone however I don't see it happening. On the newest of stock in London specifically, there are already 3 different sets of door open/close tones on different classes of trains.

I personally think with a working PIS which should be made to be extremely reliable, there shouldn't be the need for very loud door tones as "this station is..." Would alert you that the door is open. I don't think there shouldn't be a tone at all though, I'm sort of used to it I guess.

hwl said:
Except many Londoners are used to auto door open without pressing buttons including on Thameslink core so a national system isn't likely to happen as it isn't compatible with significant stock or modes of operation.
Click to expand...

True many Londoners are used to it but the majority of South London commuters don't seem to have a chronic issue with tube doors opening themselves then 'remembering' to press the button to alight at Surbiton or Sidcup. Not that I think a national system would come about though admittedly
 
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hwl

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supervc-10 said:
Automatic door opening (like on tubes and Thameslink) doesn't happen everywhere though. If you had a MetroLink style system, on the Thameslink services, if someone pressed the button nothing would be different. But outside of the core it can work like MetroLink does. Thameslink already has 2 door modes, which doesn't seem to cause issues.
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The problem with the Metrolink approach is that many people lean on the doors so might fall victim to someone pushing a button but no one seeming to alight hence the current system of door buttons only being enabled post stop by the driver /guard and in the future more by the train especially ABDO with SWR in addition to ATO on Thameslink.

Post Croydon Tram derailment the light rail approach of copy the German rules is under intense scrutiny.
 
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hwl

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Ethano92 said:
Door open tones are now commonplace in London, some are very loud but doesn't bother me. It would make sense to have a standardised tone however I don't see it happening. On the newest of stock in London specifically, there are already 3 different sets of door open/close tones on different classes of trains.

I personally think with a working PIS which should be made to be extremely reliable, there shouldn't be the need for very loud door tones as "this station is..." Would alert you that the door is open. I don't think there shouldn't be a tone at all though, I'm sort of used to it I guess.



True many Londoners are used to it but the majority of South London commuters don't seem to have a chronic issue with tube doors opening themselves then 'remembering' to press the button to alight at Surbiton or Sidcup. Not that I think a national system would come about though admittedly
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It think it works currently because there are largely 2 modes so it is fairly simple to remember what and where (especially since LU went to driver control only with the buttons being replaced or plated over). Some added complexity with ABDO will arise but it will largely follow the TL pattern but door opening times will soon be very quick on average.
 
3141

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Dstock7080 said:
.Except the many trains on the network where the doors are simply released at a station and require the passenger to push a button .
The tone is for visually impaired persons to know this has been done.
Having a tone on all trains standardise that experience.
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Interesting: so it's designed for those who cannot easily see the illumination on a "Doors Open" button that tells them the doors have been released, but can see the button in order to press it. Does the number of such people really make this necessary?
 
Via Bank

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3141 said:
Interesting: so it's designed for those who cannot easily see the illumination on a "Doors Open" button that tells them the doors have been released, but can see the button in order to press it. Does the number of such people really make this necessary?
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1. Yes
2. The buttons are also raised, with Braille and tactile markings, so you can feel around for it, even if you can't see it.

I don't see how this is any more controversial than pedestrian crossings making a noise…
 
3141

3141

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Via Bank said:
1. Yes
2. The buttons are also raised, with Braille and tactile markings, so you can feel around for it, even if you can't see it.

I don't see how this is any more controversial than pedestrian crossings making a noise…
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I didn't say I thought it was controversial. I think it's unnecessary, and a case of doing something just because it's possible. It will add something - not much, but something - to the cost of each carriage, and every little addition adds up to something a bit bigger. (See GWML electrification.) It also provides one more thing that may go wrong. In ten years' time there'll probably be a thread discussing the need to take a train out of service when the "doors have been released" sound isn't working on one door of one coach out of twelve.
 
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supervc-10

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So you're complaining about assistive technologies being used to help those who are unfortunate enough to have a disability? Delightful.
 
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samuelmorris

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My take on this is that I absolutely agree having a standardised set of rules door sounders should follow, and having them fitted to every train, is the right thing to do.

Where I think they've gone wrong is the set of standards they chose. 5 seconds for released, 3 seconds for released and opened, every time the door is released is pretty tedious and in my opinion unnecessary.

A variation of how it used to be done, either on the tube (e.g. 95/96TS or S7/S8 stock), or on the Desiro UK and Junipers, would in my opinion be perfectly sufficient and far less intrusive to those who don't benefit.
 
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This thread is to discuss London Overground Class 710s. If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create or use another thread, thanks :)
 
3141

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supervc-10 said:
So you're complaining about assistive technologies being used to help those who are unfortunate enough to have a disability? Delightful.
Click to expand...

You appear to like putting words into someone else's mouth. I am not "complaining", I stated clearly that I think this is unnecessary.
 
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supervc-10

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Well it's certainly coming across as complaining. The door sounders will have been fitted after consultation with the affected usergroups- people who actually have those disabilities. They might be annoying for you, but they're vital for some people's independence and ability to use the railways unassisted.
 
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Flinn Reed

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If a 710 enters service this week, is it only initially due to work peak only services on the Watford line?
 
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greatkingrat

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Times are
From Watford: 0629 0829 1031 1231 1431 1631 1831 2031
From Euston: 0727 0928 1128 1328 1528 1727 1927

Services in red are running ECS as driver training trips.
 
ijmad

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From what I gather there are still only 8x 710/2's accepted by LO right? So the existing six needed on the GOBLIN and one on the Watford DC means not many left for failures. Is this why there was news earlier in the thread of 710/1's out and about on the GOBLIN? I mean as well as testing they might provide useful capacity.
 
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hwl

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ijmad said:
From what I gather there are still only 8x 710/2's accepted by LO right? So the existing six needed on the GOBLIN and one on the Watford DC means not many left for failures. Is this why there was news earlier in the thread of 710/1's out and about on the GOBLIN? I mean as well as testing they might provide useful capacity.
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The biggest issue with the "lack" of 710/2s is probably where to put them until something else leaves Willesden? Hence some 378s need to leave for New Cross /other stabling / the refurb programme and all the DC drivers need to be trained on them before a big swap for more 710s starts.
 
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