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Northern's 'new' seat covers

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anti-pacer

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I cannot believe how stained some of these are at the moment. Northern gave us all the fanfare of new and refurbished trains, but many of the refurbished units look shabby.

Look at this for example. Totally unacceptable, as posted on a Facebook page by a fellow passenger.
 

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theking

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Can't blame northern for that if dirty scummy passengers do that to the seats.

The only way they can get rid of that is a deep clean which I doubt can be done overnight in the depot or changing the seat.

What would you rather have a carriage with a few dirty seats or no train.
 

anti-pacer

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Can't blame northern for that if dirty scummy passengers do that to the seats.

The only way they can get rid of that is a deep clean which I doubt can be done overnight in the depot or changing the seat.

What would you rather have a carriage with a few dirty seats or no train.

I'd rather have a nice, clean train. I've not seen this on any other TOC.

Are Northern's passengers dirtier than all the others then? Is that what you're saying?

You wouldn't stay in a hotel room that was dirty and accept the reason was the previous guests were messy. Why should it be any different?

Maybe TOC's need to enforce their byelaws, like Merseyrail do.
 

Non Multi

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Flat cloth seats covered in stains shock! GWR tried flat cloth seats a few years ago with the same outcome.
 

thejuggler

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Looks very much like the ones on a service I took into Leeds last week. The issue is choice of material. Light colours will never be clean for long.

Remember the dark blue covers will be just as vile, you just can’t see it.
 

anti-pacer

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Looks very much like the ones on a service I took into Leeds last week. The issue is choice of material. Light colours will never be clean for long.

Remember the dark blue covers will be just as vile, you just can’t see it.

I think judging by at least one of the seat covers, someone or their dog had an accident.
 

al78

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I'd rather have a nice, clean train. I've not seen this on any other TOC.

Are Northern's passengers dirtier than all the others then? Is that what you're saying?

You wouldn't stay in a hotel room that was dirty and accept the reason was the previous guests were messy. Why should it be any different?

Because it isn't even remotely the same situation.

A hotel room is used by one person/family/whatever at a time for at least one night, and the time restrictions on checking in and out gives the cleaners (who are employed and active all day), time to give the room a good clean in between guests. A train has hundreds of passengers boarding it throughout the day, there are no cleaners on board, the train is in constant use all day, and if a passenger soils the interior, there is no way to do a thorough clean without taking the train out of service (note that when a hotel says you must check in after 3pm and check out before 10am, they are effectively taking the room out of service for a few hours to clean and prepare it for the next guest, you can't practically do that with a train).
 

anti-pacer

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Because it isn't even remotely the same situation.

A hotel room is used by one person/family/whatever at a time for at least one night, and the time restrictions on checking in and out gives the cleaners (who are employed and active all day), time to give the room a good clean in between guests. A train has hundreds of passengers boarding it throughout the day, there are no cleaners on board, the train is in constant use all day, and if a passenger soils the interior, there is no way to do a thorough clean without taking the train out of service (note that when a hotel says you must check in after 3pm and check out before 10am, they are effectively taking the room out of service for a few hours to clean and prepare it for the next guest, you can't practically do that with a train).

A train is taken out for longer, overnight.

Given the current state of Northern's trains, I don't even think they're getting any form of cleaning.

Just saying what I see.
 

al78

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A train is taken out for longer, overnight.

But the interior is being soiled during the day, when the train is operational, which is when you and anyone else will see the mess. Even if it is cleaned overnight, it only takes a few careless passengers the next morning to start soiling it again.
 

Bletchleyite

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The issue is the use of flat cloth - moquette hides this kind of thing far better. They have started using moquette for new refurbs but they need to go back and redo those ones.
 

anti-pacer

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But the interior is being soiled during the day, when the train is operational, which is when you and anyone else will see the mess. Even if it is cleaned overnight, it only takes a few careless passengers the next morning to start soiling it again.

Aside from this they're is a general lack of cleaning. The stains on some of the metal panels on the floor of the 144 I've been on look like spilled drinks, etc. The number of them suggest that they're not all from today. They would easily come off.

Compared to other TOC's, Northern are just shabby.
 

Edders23

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I think judging by at least one of the seat covers, someone or their dog had an accident.


Actually more likely someone spilt a fizzy drink or a bag on the seat with something leaking

I have to get my seats washed at least once every 12 months because people just don't care if it's not their's . It is a perennial problem for all providers of public transport. The only solution is plastic seat coverings but customers hate them which is why they never caught on.

The seats can be brought back to newish looking through washing them but they take anything from 12 up to 48 hours to dry and I'm sure keeping trains off the rails to wash seats will be very popular with the customers
 

anti-pacer

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Actually more likely someone spilt a fizzy drink or a bag on the seat with something leaking

I have to get my seats washed at least once every 12 months because people just don't care if it's not their's . It is a perennial problem for all providers of public transport. The only solution is plastic seat coverings but customers hate them which is why they never caught on.

The seats can be brought back to newish looking through washing them but they take anything from 12 up to 48 hours to dry and I'm sure keeping trains off the rails to wash seats will be very popular with the customers

Maybe new solutions are needed then. I get the need for keeping what stock Northern have got running, but as a passenger I expect to be able to sit on a clean seat, where the seat is available.

Again, a stricter enforcement of the byelaws is probably needed.
 

Edders23

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Maybe new solutions are needed then. I get the need for keeping what stock Northern have got running, but as a passenger I expect to be able to sit on a clean seat, where the seat is available.

Again, a stricter enforcement of the byelaws is probably needed.


what bye laws are you referring to ?
 

DarloRich

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Maybe new solutions are needed then. I get the need for keeping what stock Northern have got running, but as a passenger I expect to be able to sit on a clean seat, where the seat is available.

That is why many TOC's have gone for (faux?) leather. Wipe clean.

Again, a stricter enforcement of the byelaws is probably needed.

aha! the old RUK bylaw obsession! In the real world...........
 

Trainfan2019

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I'd rather have a nice, clean train. I've not seen this on any other TOC.

I've seen stains on the TPE 185s not too long after refurbishment. I agree about northern interiors though as most look uncleaned when I've travelled in the past months.
 

DarloRich

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So what do you suggest to improve things?

Some travelling cleaners would help as would not choosing a fabric that shows stains so easily. Having more time out of service would also help with cleaning but that isnt going to be popular! Also paying high enough fares to cover the costs of cleaning might help ;)

BTW the byelaws are a total waste of time unless you have a high enough level of staff to patrol every train and enforce consistently . It also wouldn't take long for someone to challenge them ( as they are so archaic) and the whole system will come crashing down.
 

yorksrob

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Given how many of the refurbished trains still don't have such niceties as seatback tables etc, it's not hard to see how passengers might spill their coffee.

Nevertheless, moquette stands up better to such punishment and Northern has recently relearnt the lesson in this respect.
 

Edders23

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So what do you suggest to improve things?


How about a stock of spare seats replace stained ones during overnight maintenance and get the stained ones cleaned to be put into another unit once there are seats there that need cleaning
 

yorksrob

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One of the innovations of the networkers was that you could take the seat cover off and bung it in the washing machine.
 

bramling

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Given how many of the refurbished trains still don't have such niceties as seatback tables etc, it's not hard to see how passengers might spill their coffee.

Nevertheless, moquette stands up better to such punishment and Northern has recently relearnt the lesson in this respect.

Being cynical, this is the railway revolving door. The industry spends many years learning through experience that a particular arrangement works best. Someone then comes in wanting to establish their own “fresh new ideas”. It turns out to be a disaster and eventually things end up back where they started.

Moquette works well because it’s hard wearing and masks dirt and stains. Short of replacing the covers on a pretty regular basis, railway seats will always be pretty disgusting, but we might as well have something which looks okay even if under the skin it isn’t.
 

Strat-tastic

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Being cynical, this is the railway revolving door. The industry spends many years learning through experience that a particular arrangement works best. Someone then comes in wanting to establish their own “fresh new ideas”. It turns out to be a disaster and eventually things end up back where they started.

Or as I say, there's many a good idea lost in the name of progress.
 

SC43090

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I understand Northern are going to put old seat covers back as the new ones are a shambles. they do not clean properly etc etc......

SC 43090
 

js1000

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The cloth seat experiment has failed. In all future refurbishments they are replacing them with a more durable moquette substitute. Although part of the problem is Northern not cleaning and looking after their trains. By comparison TPE have 'train presentation' teams - the idea of a heavily subsidised franchise like Northern doing the same is an anathema. Hopefully Eversholt who own the 195s and 331s will be a lot more stringent in this regard.
 

scrapy

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The cloth seat experiment has failed. In all future refurbishments they are replacing them with a more durable moquette substitute. Although part of the problem is Northern not cleaning and looking after their trains. By comparison TPE have 'train presentation' teams - the idea of a heavily subsidised franchise like Northern doing the same is an anathema. Hopefully Eversholt who own the 195s and 331s will be a lot more stringent in this regard.
Lack of travelling cleaners seems the main problem. Northern have cleaners during the daytime at some terminal points, I've seen them at Blackpool, Southport, Manchester Airport for example. Trouble is for example a train arrives at Manchester Airport from Barrow dirty bit the cleaner says they don't have enough time (when the 6 minute turnaround becomes 2) the train then goes to Windermere and does several trips to Oxenholme before returning to the airport all without being cleaned.
 
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