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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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61653 HTAFC

61653 HTAFC

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edwin_m said:
Haven't all the underfloor engine types used in historic and current DMUs also been used on one road vehicle or another?
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Some of the engines in 1950s DMUs had also been used on buses, particularly the AEC ones... and of course the Leyland engines used in 141s!
 
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DarloRich

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Great news this morning: There is train availability but.............................................................. no staff ( FFS)

The meet the manager event on Thursday is going to be a tough gig. I am already marking out my long run up
 
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Looks as though a Transport for Wales* set has finally emerged from Long Marston today for a run to Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham, then back to Long Marston. Word locally is that more testing on the Cotswold Line can be expected this week.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12002/2019/09/09/advanced

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12003/2019/09/09/advanced

Picture at Evesham and a video clip on Vivarail's Twitter feed https://twitter.com/vivarail

* or maybe not - the branding on the set reads Vivarail test train and it is numbered 230002, which I think means it is the battery test set, but now extended to a three-car formation.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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jimm said:
Looks as though a Transport for Wales* set has finally emerged from Long Marston today for a run to Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham, then back to Long Marston. Word locally is that more testing on the Cotswold Line can be expected this week.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12002/2019/09/09/advanced

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12003/2019/09/09/advanced

Picture at Evesham and a video clip on Vivarail's Twitter feed https://twitter.com/vivarail

* or maybe not - the branding on the set reads Vivarail test train and it is numbered 230002, which I think means it is the battery test set, but now extended to a three-car formation.
Click to expand...

I suppose that the Transport for Wales units will be subjected to an in-depth programme of testing that will incorporate full attention being paid to the unit internal problems that have been noted whilst in service on the Marston Vale line.
 
sprinterguy

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jimm said:
* or maybe not - the branding on the set reads Vivarail test train and it is numbered 230002, which I think means it is the battery test set, but now extended to a three-car formation.
Click to expand...
Yeah, subsequent comments in the Vivarail twitter feed state that it is battery prototype unit 230002 with a generator set fitted centre car inserted into the formation, in order to test the battery/genset configuration that will be used on the TFW sets.
 
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samuelmorris said:
Not because they're inherently bad but because they aren't designed with rail use in mind - there are precedents for translating road vehicle engines to rail use and to my recollection they weren't very successful either. Most of the transits you see being driven recklessly have smaller 4-cylinder engines, I can't really comment on those but from what I gather the 5-cylinder examples used in the 230s aren't that robust either, especially if not fitted with adequate cooling.
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I do not possess a crystal ball, but over four years ago I was a lone voice amongst the Vivarail fanbois on this thread, when I suggested that the reliability of this engine might prove unsatisfactory in the rail application:
Greybeard33 said:
My point was that engine design is inevitably a compromise between various conflicting requirements. Automotive engines are optimised for automotive requirements, which, as you rightly point out, are quite different to those for a DEMU engine. A D78 engine will spend most of its life alternating between periods of constant speed, maximum power operation and periods at idle/shutdown. Maximum power means maximum mechanical stress and maximum component temperatures. Sudden cutback from maximum power to idle/shutdown causes high thermal stress, particularly on components like turbochargers. Purpose-designed railway diesel engines are optimised for high reliability and long intervals between overhauls with this type of duty cycle.

I might be proved wrong, but I think there is a risk that the automotive engine will turn out to be unreliable in the D78 application, and expensive to maintain.
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Greybeard33 said:
I do not possess a crystal ball, but over four years ago I was a lone voice amongst the Vivarail fanbois on this thread, when I suggested that the reliability of this engine might prove unsatisfactory in the rail application:
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I think a few voiced this opinion, I know I did.
 
krus_aragon

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I can think of one particular member of this forum who has been most vociferous in their scepticism of this project for the past five years, engines and all. :smile:

Still, I look forward to seeing their introduction in North Wales, so I can make my own judgement of them.
 
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This thread was created on 14th July 2014 to discuss the creation of Class 230 DEMUs (to put this into context, Year 6 primary school students at that time have now started Year 12 at college!) and now that the units are entering service it's time to move on.

This is a traction and rolling stock discussion and therefore detailed discussion of anything about timetabling, speculative ideas, infrastructure, or any other areas does not belong in this thread.

If anyone wishes to discuss potential alternative provision/solutions for the Marston Vale Line, please use this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/potential-solutions-for-the-marston-vale-line.191951/

If anyone wishes to discuss why the Class 230s are experiencing reliability issues please use this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...iability-of-vivarail-class-230-trains.191952/ (this is not to be used to suggest alternative provision for the Marston Vale line or any other line though, please!)

And for anything else please create/use another thread, thanks :)

If anyone has any questions please contact us.
 
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