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What’s this trackside sign?

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martin2345uk

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On one of my routes there is a plain yellow triangle on a post next to the track, but positioned as through for wrong direction movements. It’s not in the rule book and my DI doesn’t know what it is. It can be seen in the below video at around 6:14, also screenshot attached. Any ideas?

69BED2AA-6F19-4AAD-8867-EB8FC3FED4EB.jpeg

 
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RailUK Forums

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Sighting for the crossing as far as I know. There were foot crossings there before the bridges. Something to do with vegetation, if you can't see the board it needs cutting back. Hopefully, someone will be along to provide a more definitive answer.
 

ComUtoR

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Random guess...


I checked the sexypendage and there is an axlecounter section at 3m 70 on the Down Ashton and a change to Manchester ROC. Maybe its showing the change from Track Circuit to Axle Counter
 

headshot119

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There looks to be a similar sign facing away from trains travelling in the down direction at 06:05. Is it also plain?
 

headshot119

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Random guess...


I checked the sexypendage and there is an axlecounter section at 3m 70 on the Down Ashton and a change to Manchester ROC. Maybe its showing the change from Track Circuit to Axle Counter

Not a bad shout actually. I did also wonder if it was marking a buried service (Gas main etc)
 

King Lazy

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I believe it is a generic electrical hazard warning sign.

In this case it possibly warns of a cable passing under the track or similar hazard.

Not 100% certain though.
 

Eccles1983

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Sighting for the crossing as far as I know. There were foot crossings there before the bridges. Something to do with vegetation, if you can't see the board it needs cutting back. Hopefully, someone will be along to provide a more definitive answer.

Correct.

It used to be a farm crossing with whistle boards. The two triangles are placed for crossing sighting. If you couldn't see one from the other it was time for the pway men to come and prune the bushes. The track was curved so if overgrown you couldn't see the crossing approaching at 70.

They got fitted about the same time that the crossing went to tsr 40.
 

DI1964

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One thing I will add to this is that NOBODY knows everything about the railway, even those who have been on 30+ years.
Not to say there are quite a few who think they do!
 

swt_passenger

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The railsigns site has a couple of examples of completely different signs associated with maintaining level crossing sighting distances, but as they are for the level crossing maintenance people, presumably there is no need for drivers to know them? The problem is going to be that a driver probably expects a yellow triangle (as in this example) to be important to him...

AIUI they are positioned so that someone stood at the level crossing ‘decision point’ should be able to see the signs when looking up or down the track. That’s not the same problem as being able to see the level crossing from a train at speed as proposed in post #8 above...
 

sw1ller

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The railsigns site has a couple of examples of completely different signs associated with maintaining level crossing sighting distances, but as they are for the level crossing maintenance people, presumably there is no need for drivers to know them? The problem is going to be that a driver probably expects a yellow triangle (as in this example) to be important to him...

AIUI they are positioned so that someone stood at the level crossing ‘decision point’ should be able to see the signs when looking up or down the track. That’s not the same problem as being able to see the level crossing from a train at speed as proposed in post #8 above...

That would make more sense. Possibly why it’s yellow too, as that’s what someone on the crossing would see (not for much longer due to the rule change about trains having a yellow front).
 
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I would normally associated a warning triangle with a catch point, but today its low rail adhesion warning sign
 

Llama

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One thing I will add to this is that NOBODY knows everything about the railway, even those who have been on 30+ years.
Not to say there are quite a few who think they do!
Quite right, the one day someone thinks they know it all on the railway is the day they set in motion their downfall.

There are plenty of gaps in my knowledge but I'd like to think I have the nous to know that it's important to ask the question when something new and unfamiliar and potentially important crops up.

If I was to drive a route that had two safety critical looking signs on it at a specific location and I didn't understand their meaning I'd make sure I found out what they were pretty quickly.

As it happens the signs in question appeared overnight several years ago and weren't publicised in any operating notices. They are not signs shown in the rulebook or sectional appendix, however the fact that the signs had suddenly appeared on a route where money seemingly couldn't even be found for PSR boards, and they appeared designed to be conspicuous, visible from a distance, positioned in a specific location (extensive vegetation had been cut back to position them where they were constructed) and that they were on the right hand side of the running lines where there happened to be three level crossings (two UWGs and one foot crossing with whistle boards) meant that it was obvious the right thing to do was to ask the question. For all any drivers knew at the time they might have been critical to wrong direction movements.

It is indeed true that 'nobody knows everything', however there are those people on the railway who just shrug and don't take responsibility for their own knowledge, and then there are those who use whatever means they can to dig and find answers. It sounds to me that the OP, being but a trainee at the moment, has a little more inquisitiveness than his DI because the trainee is the one on here asking the question. The DI by definition will have signed the route in question for several years as a minimum (whether Northern or TPE) but it is the trainee appearing on here asking the questions. As a DI you certainly can't answer every question your trainee might throw at you but any that you can't you should be able to find out the answer somewhere. When the boards appeared we asked our local management and we had an answer from Network Rail within a few days which was posted locally in our signing on point for drivers to digest.

@swt_passenger has it spot on. The boards were actually provided about five years ago on the up and down Main (as they were then known between Baguley Fold and Ashton Moss North Jns) as level crossing sighting boards for Moss Lane (FP), Moss Lane UWG and Jaum Field Farm UWG crossings in response to a risk assessment. Those three crossings were all in very close proximity to one another. A long standing TSR had been in force since 2011 reducing line speed on approach from 70mph to 40mph but clearly that hadn't satisfied the risk posed by vegetation obscuring the view of approaching trains for, and of, crossing users. In April 2018 when the line was extensively resignalled after a blockade the crossings were all abolished and two were replaced by footbridges, however the signs were never removed and remain there.
 
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