Passenger carriages on mail/parcels trains - Recollections.

eastwestdivide said:

That might be technically possible, but I haven't seen much evidence of it actually taking place, especially on a regular turn. The series of newspaper/van trains run by the SR out of Victoria/Waterloo in the early hours (0200-0300 departures more or less) were essentially parcels-type stock with mostly a single BSK in the formation.

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I am certain it did happen because I noticed the working when something like a Special Notice (SN) came across my desk, I imagine I was doing a cross-boundary working to the SR that was contained in the same SN. I have a feeling it was for the Central and / or the SE division as I didn't know the geography very well.
Special Notices were on A4 sheets (or multiple sheets) combining loco, stock and traincrew workings that were issued for alterations that were too late to be included in the Weekly alterations [to the WTT.]
I suppose it is possible that engineering work had changed their usual arrangements. Like @Taunton, I think it would have been easy to do, you just had to have the vans and coaches marshalled as the tail behind the last MU-fitted loco.

There was a newspaper train used to run from Leeds to Harrogate in the late 1970s, at something like 1 or 1.30 in the morning on weekdays. I can remember using it on at least one occasion, and it had something like half a carriage for passengers. The passengers were in the dark throughout the journey, and no-one checked tickets, except at the Leeds station barrier, probably because most of the half dozen-or-so passengers crashed out on the seats. Very useful if you'd been to a concert or show, or simply boozing in Leeds (which I hadn't).

The train didn't appear in all timetables. It certainly wasn't in the pocket timetables for the Leeds-Harrogate line, but I think it must have been in the BR national passenger timetables book you could buy.

crosscity said:

The parcels trains were very useful if you needed to travel overnight. In my teens I needed to get to University open days from West Yorkshire to London and Brighton in 1974. There was a Leeds-KX which arrived in London before the Underground started up, giving plenty of time to freshen up ready for interview. I caught the same train three times in as many weeks - always a Class 47 with a few Mark I compartments. The school hardship fund paid for the tickets.

The best overnight journey was my last one. I was job-searching four years later and had to get from Halifax to Kirkcaldy for a 9am interview. There was a 2030 (or thereabouts) KX-Edinburgh, which left York at midnight-ish. I presume it was a newspaper train. It had Mark I compartments, and very few passengers. I had the compartment to myself next to the engine, dimmed the lights, drew the blinds and lay across the four seats with the window open. In and out of sleep being gently swayed over points and listening to the hum of the Deltic at the front was heaven. I think it took four or five hours to get to Edinburgh - I didn't want it to end! Fittingly it was my last Deltic-hauled journey on the ECML. I didn't get the job, but it was sure worth going to the interview - and the Company paid for the ticket.

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The 2030KX-Edinburgh was a mail train which had an opposite number at 2020 from Edinburgh conveying mail coaches and sleepers.It called at various stations en route such as Drem and Dunbar.i used it on one occasion between these two places.The loco was Deltic D9000 Royal Scots Grey.
A bit earlier there was a 1025 Edinburgh - Newcastle conveying Mail coaches and similarly calling at Drem and Dunbar.
My usage of it was behind A4 60002 between again Drem and Dunbar

Notably the heavy overnight services on the WR all went the "old way round", presumably reflecting the demand for mails etc to follow established routes. So the WofE went via Bristol, the South Wales via Gloucester, and the Shrewsbury etc went via Oxford. Against this, the newspaper trains went via the quickest route possible.

Regarding the newspapers, in England/Wales up to the 1980s these were printed in two principal places, London and Manchester, and distributed from there. The dividing line for where the papers were printed was east-west across the Midlands, determined almost entirely by how the the rail services were arranged. As well as the mainstream services, a series of short distance connecting services with just a couple of vans also linked into them.

Right into the mid-1980s some very old established practices applied. The papers were printed in Fleet Street and the bundles were taken to the London termini by a series of open drop-side lorries, two men on each, which would all line up in the streets there at midnight. If it was raining they were sheeted over and roped down in the traditional way, and many jobs passed from father to son. Although paid for a full shift, there was only about 3-4 hours of work, so many of those involved had further overnight jobs, taxi driving was one (all the cabs were left meantime in side streets) or porters at Covent Garden market.

Steamysandy said:

The 2030KX-Edinburgh was a mail train which had an opposite number at 2020 from Edinburgh conveying mail coaches and sleepers.It called at various stations en route such as Drem and Dunbar.i used it on one occasion between these two places.The loco was Deltic D9000 Royal Scots Grey.
A bit earlier there was a 1025 Edinburgh - Newcastle conveying Mail coaches and similarly calling at Drem and Dunbar.
My usage of it was behind A4 60002 between again Drem and Dunbar

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These really were great services, and cheap to provide for the public as BR would be paid to run the trains by the GPO and the newspaper groups. They were trains that most would never use, but were there if you needed them. Your early morning journeys from Drem to Dunbar behind an A4 and a Deltic was presumably in the sixties and sound like a real hoot.

crosscity said:

The parcels trains were very useful if you needed to travel overnight. In my teens I needed to get to University open days from West Yorkshire to London and Brighton in 1974. There was a Leeds-KX which arrived in London before the Underground started up, giving plenty of time to freshen up ready for interview. I caught the same train three times in as many weeks - always a Class 47 with a few Mark I compartments. The school hardship fund paid for the tickets.

The best overnight journey was my last one. I was job-searching four years later and had to get from Halifax to Kirkcaldy for a 9am interview. There was a 2030 (or thereabouts) KX-Edinburgh, which left York at midnight-ish. I presume it was a newspaper train. It had Mark I compartments, and very few passengers. I had the compartment to myself next to the engine, dimmed the lights, drew the blinds and lay across the four seats with the window open. In and out of sleep being gently swayed over points and listening to the hum of the Deltic at the front was heaven. I think it took four or five hours to get to Edinburgh - I didn't want it to end! Fittingly it was my last Deltic-hauled journey on the ECML. I didn't get the job, but it was sure worth going to the interview - and the Company paid for the ticket.

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It would be great having a compartment to yourself but far less enjoyable if your peace and tranquillity were rudely interrupted by a hoard of loud excitable individuals invading your compartment and wanting to party all night.

Czesziafan said:

It would be great having a compartment to yourself but far less enjoyable if your peace and tranquillity were rudely interrupted by a hoard of loud excitable individuals invading your compartment and wanting to party all night.

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I travelled on other overnight trains in the seventies, some with compartments, some without in both Britain and Europe, and many full of passengers. There may have been 'hoards of loud excitable individuals' on the trains, but I never saw (or heard) any. At 2a.m. and 3a.m. most would be asleep.

crosscity said:

These really were great services, and cheap to provide for the public as BR would be paid to run the trains by the GPO and the newspaper groups. They were trains that most would never use, but were there if you needed them. Your early morning journeys from Drem to Dunbar behind an A4 and a Deltic was presumably in the sixties and sound like a real hoot.

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The A4 episode was on the morning train and was about 1961.It was two twelve year olds out for a day
The Deltic was a bit later and was a Saturday night en route home from visiting a friend..In 2008 I travelled on an SRPS railtour from Longniddry to Mallaig behind the same Deltic!!!

d9009alycidon said:

Yes Indeed, many happy memories of that train, a regular1970s summer Friday evening activity would be train from Coatbridge to Glasgow then out to Carstairs on the peak hour EMU, an evening at the station then up to the pub for a couple of pints, couple of cans then into the pocket and back down to the station for 1S81 back to Coatbridge Central. The two coaches worked south during the day as part of a parcels service, but that was a class 5 and didn't allow passengers.

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I travelled on the last one - there was a distinctly party atmosphere on board!

Taunton said:

........................I believe they could; a Class 33 could be in the middle, EP emu in front, vacuum braked Mk 1 hauled stock or even vans behind, all controlled from the emu driving position at the front, the Class 33 (and 73) in the middle having an air/vacuum brake translator. Someone will be along soon with all the technical detail, I'm sure. After steam finished in 1967 all the remaining SR Mk 1 stock had electric train heating for this. Inter-regional stock had to be dual heat.

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I've read somewhere that only the 73/0 could work as a brake translator, the 73/1 and 33 couldn't. Don't know about the 74

crosscity said:

I travelled on other overnight trains in the seventies, some with compartments, some without in both Britain and Europe, and many full of passengers. There may have been 'hoards of loud excitable individuals' on the trains, but I never saw (or heard) any. At 2a.m. and 3a.m. most would be asleep.

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It happened to me once - not on a mail/parcels service but as a seated passenger on the down Night Ferry in the seventies - not only on the SR but on the ferry and the SNCF train as well! Absolute nightmare with millions of boozed up rugby fans.

From http://www.leightonlogs.org/0110GlasOban.htm

There was 2B01 0100 Glasgow - Oban.
This was a classic overnight delivering mail, papers and a few passengers to the remoter regions of the West Highlands. The train was about load 5 with passenger accommodation in 4 vehicles so there was always plenty of room. It was nicknamed the ghost train! Leaving Queen St around 0100 the service was booked to cross a freight at Crianlarich. It seemed strange stirring at Crianlarich around 3am as a small Sulzer passed on 8C05 0105 Oban - Cadder freight and opened up in the otherwise silent landscape.

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