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Railway fatalities

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pompeyfan

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First of all I understand that this may not be allowed, but if approached carefully and discussed sensitively it would be nice to make progress.

There’s been 3 persons hit by a train in the last 3 days on the SWR network, and generally across the country it seems like over the years there’s been an increase in these sorts of incidents.

It would be wrong to speculate as to why these people were hit by trains, but what, if anything can the TOCS, NR, BTP and various mental health charities do to stem this drastic rise?
 
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GB

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Is there a "drastic" rise or just a perceived one?

ORR figures for recorded suicides last 5 years...
2013-14 - 300
2014-15 - 307
2015-16 - 277
2016-17 - 272
2017-18 - 292

*2018-19 data not yet available.

An increase on the last couple of years but in line with averages it would seem.
 

ComUtoR

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but what, if anything can the TOCS, NR, BTP and various mental health charities do to stem this drastic rise?

There are various campaigns across the network and plenty of signage and visible offers of support (Samaritans posters etc) Some stations are getting infrastructure upgrades to help mitigate against incidents too (gates, no-go pads etc) Even simple things like lighting upgrades are known to help. Various internal campaigns too.
 

pompeyfan

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Is there a "drastic" rise or just a perceived one?

ORR figures for recorded suicides last 5 years...
2013-14 - 300
2014-15 - 307
2015-16 - 277
2016-17 - 272
2017-18 - 292

*2018-19 data not yet available.

An increase on the last couple of years but in line with averages it would seem.

Interesting looking at the numbers there, are they able to tell if it was suicide or misadventures or even standing the wrong side of the yellow line type of thing? I’d assume driver witness statements would help categorise.

In regards to various campaigns being under way and infrastructure changes, I suppose if someone is that intent on taking their life, they will find a way to trespass.

I notice at both Clapham and Woking new staff in white HV jackets have been employed to scout for those shown signs of being distressed.
 

GB

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The figures above are purely recorded as suicide. Accident/tresspass/misadventure not included.
 

ComUtoR

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Interesting looking at the numbers there, are they able to tell if it was suicide or misadventures or even standing the wrong side of the yellow line type of thing? I’d assume driver witness statements would help categorise.

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1166/rail-safety-statistics-2017-18.pdf

Link : Rail safety statistics

In regards to various campaigns being under way and infrastructure changes, I suppose if someone is that intent on taking their life, they will find a way to trespass.

It certainly isn't something that will ever be prevented but certainly mitigated and reduced. Many, if not most, of the suicides I hear about are people who jump unexpectedly at the last minute off the platform edge. Not many over the years (that I am aware of) are those who trespassed onto the track to take their own life.
 

Mintona

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It feels to me like it’s happening far less regularly this year, but that could just be on the Great Western Railway where I work.
 

tiptoptaff

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It would be interesting to see those figures broken down further to season.

It always seems we get more around Christmas, but that could just be perception.

On the GWR, where a lot were happening regularly on the fast line platforms at London suburban stations, a lot of work has been done to restrict access as best possible, to attempt to mitigate the chances of it happening.
 

RichT54

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I wonder if sometimes there is a sort of copycat effect going on, where news of someone dying on the railway is seen by other people who are also suffering from severe depression, triggering them to follow suit? A cluster of deaths in a short period could then make it seem like the frequency is rising.
 

Hotdog

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I wonder if sometimes there is a sort of copycat effect going on, where news of someone dying on the railway is seen by other people who are also suffering from severe depression, triggering them to follow suit? A cluster of deaths in a short period could then make it seem like the frequency is rising.

Having been on a Samaritans course before, I'm fairly certain this was mentioned.
 

Mojo

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Having been on a Samaritans course before, I'm fairly certain this was mentioned.
Absolutely. This is one of the many reasons why we do not generally allow disruption threads on the forum, with a few exceptions. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/service-disruption-threads.160272/ for more information including a link to Samaritans factsheet.

This is also why some railway operators avoid using terms like person under train, person hit by train & fatality and avoid mentioning the location. Unfortunately (in my opinion) not all operators do this however, and clickbait online “news” websites often publicise locations, photographs and details of such incidents.
 

Spartacus

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I wonder if sometimes there is a sort of copycat effect going on, where news of someone dying on the railway is seen by other people who are also suffering from severe depression, triggering them to follow suit? A cluster of deaths in a short period could then make it seem like the frequency is rising.

From my experience it's certainly the case, about 15 years ago I remember one location getting AT LEAST two a week in the run up to Christmas, I've never known anything quite like it before or since.

To a certain extent I also think it's about perception, the same way people think air crashes always happen in threes: the moment a second event happens you're waiting for the third. The way things are reported encourages the belief too.
 

realnovice

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Northallerton station has high vis patrol on it now until 10pm however it's an open station so after that its not attended. Speaking to the guy he said there is going to be fences put up on the side of the platforms but I don't know how much credence to give that.
 

DarloRich

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We have had visible deterrence patrols at many of the WCML south stations for some time and that seems to have had an impact.

The best thing, honestly, might just be asking some one you think is struggling: are you ok? I have done it a couple of times and while I am not grand enough to think I saved anyone it might have helped. If nothing else it bought some time for another person to summon help. We all spend more time at stations than normals so will know if something looks a bit wrong. Don't be scared. Trust yourself. Ask.

The Samaritans have a campaign about this at present. It is called Small Talk Saves Lives and details can be found here:

https://www.samaritans.org/support-us/campaign/small-talk-saves-lives/
 

Horizon22

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It would be interesting to see those figures broken down further to season.

It always seems we get more around Christmas, but that could just be perception.

On the GWR, where a lot were happening regularly on the fast line platforms at London suburban stations, a lot of work has been done to restrict access as best possible, to attempt to mitigate the chances of it happening.

I've also been told there is a cluster around GCSE and A Level results days sadly. There can definitely be copycat episodes which is why when an incident occurs it will normally be stated "due to emergency services dealing with an incident / a person struck by a train in [X large area] or [between X - Y]" so as not to identify the specific location.
 

LAX54

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You can make it more difficult at Stations, but away from there, then it is not so easy, access to the Railway is fairly easy.
 
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Kingspanner

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In a previous life when I had to respond to railway fatalities in County Durham it did seem as though one death would spark another, although on reflection it might just have been statistical fluctuation.
When it comes to suicide it is apparent that the availability of a method affects its use, so where a high speed railway exists, that method will be chosen.
Drilling down slightly further, the Humber and the Tyne (to give two examples) attract jumpers because of the pedestrian accessibility offered by bridges. Interestingly the Tees has very few issues because much of the river in the urban conurbation cannot easily be accessed on foot.
I think the point I am making is that people will use what is available to do what they want to do, and the preventative methods should be twofold - try to reduce the societal provocations that lead people to self harm, and try to put barriers in the way of physical completion.
 

greyman42

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Northallerton station has high vis patrol on it now until 10pm however it's an open station so after that its not attended. Speaking to the guy he said there is going to be fences put up on the side of the platforms but I don't know how much credence to give that.
I am not aware of any historic issues at Nortallerton.
 

yorkie

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This is a sensitive subject and people need to bear in mind the quote in the link provided by Mojo above; if details of methods or particular locations where access may be easier are posted this can potentially increase instances of fatalities on the railways.
I am not aware of any historic issues at Nortallerton.
If you'd be in a position to know, I'd be extremely surprised you are not aware.
 

Scott M

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I commute from a local station on the WCML and usually phone my girlfriend after work. I’m the type to pace around while on the phone, and had several occasions where the person manning the ticket office came to me and asked if I was ok as passing drivers were concerned. I stand still when on the platform now, but it highlighted that drivers may be instructed by TOCs to report anybody they are worried about. Not sure how they would go about doing so mind, as I doubt they can call the local ticket office from their cab.
 

vikingdriver

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I commute from a local station on the WCML and usually phone my girlfriend after work. I’m the type to pace around while on the phone, and had several occasions where the person manning the ticket office came to me and asked if I was ok as passing drivers were concerned. I stand still when on the platform now, but it highlighted that drivers may be instructed by TOCs to report anybody they are worried about. Not sure how they would go about doing so mind, as I doubt they can call the local ticket office from their cab.

I did this the other day. Called the signaller on the GSMR in the cab, said I was concerned about someone on a platform and they dealt with it from there.
 

mpthomson

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As a psychiatric professional, the variations in the figures aren’t statistically significant for suicides year on year (even less so when the overall figures for suicide are taken into account), and it’s impossible to identify trends from the data.

I’d also point out that as worthy as the Samaritans (and others) efforts are there is absolutely no real evidence at this point that it’s making any difference, that will take a number of years to prove (or not). Hopefully it will, but the evidence doesn’t exist yet, and anecdotes aren’t evidence.
 

LAX54

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I commute from a local station on the WCML and usually phone my girlfriend after work. I’m the type to pace around while on the phone, and had several occasions where the person manning the ticket office came to me and asked if I was ok as passing drivers were concerned. I stand still when on the platform now, but it highlighted that drivers may be instructed by TOCs to report anybody they are worried about. Not sure how they would go about doing so mind, as I doubt they can call the local ticket office from their cab.

As others have said GSM-R is the Driver's freind, a call to the Signaller, using the URGENT facility, or if it looks very serious the EMERGENCY button (which will stop all trains in the area), but a call to the Siggie, if its a station, will call the Staff to check, if out on the track, send the MOM, and caution trains in the area to check further. the LAST thing we want is a visibly distressed driver calling into the Signaller saying he has just hit someone, would rather delay a few trains than that !
 

cosmo

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are you sure?



Sadly. Without going into details the reasons should be obvious.

Quite so.

Slightly related note - I was there spotting not long ago and there seems to be an automated system that detects if someone wanders over the yellows, automated announcement chimes up and says station staff have been informed. Useful but obviously still doesn't change the fact it's a hotspot (again without going into detail).
 

Taunton

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Do the ORR figures include London Underground, who I always thought have a particular issue with this.
 
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