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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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sjpowermac

sjpowermac

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Swedish Keith said:
No not really...just a few folk milling about between the train and the car park end nearest the parcel depot. The whole of the DVT appears to be totally blacked out except for the driving end. I'll try and get some more/better pics tomorrow. This morning the 68's engine was ticking over.
Apologies if this is off topic...it is a bit isn't it? Or is it? Guess it's all part of the overall mk 5a progress:smile:
As an aside when I popped in to Scarborough station quickly this afternoon to pick up some tickets (about 17:15) there were a total of three 68's including the TV star-I wonder if that's a first (I know I know...definitely off topic...:oops:)
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, I’ll be interested to see the advert when it’s finished.

To answer your question, I think there being three Class 68s at Scarborough has happened a few times, certainly on the first day of passenger operation there was 68027 on the Nova 3 set in platform 1, along with 68023/28 under the canopy.

The following looks like it’s the return working for the ‘tv’ star:
Thursday 12th September 2019
5M99 21:05 Scarborough TMD-Longsight
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O39370/2019/09/12/advanced
 
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EE Andy b1

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I just hope TPE get these trains in service properly before blowing there trumpet of how good they and there trains are.

We should have two trains running before the end of September.

We should have about 12 trains running every day, NOW!
 
FFFC 57

FFFC 57

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EE Andy b1 said:
I just hope TPE get these trains in service properly before blowing there trumpet of how good they and there trains are.

We should have two trains running before the end of September.

We should have about 12 trains running every day, NOW!
Click to expand...
12 Now that would be something special.
 
D6700

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To compensate for the brief lull in passenger activity, here's my photo of 68026 at York last night, with the 21:45 to Scarborough. As the 20:46 service only left at 21:41, this train was almost deserted!

68026 York.jpg
 
sjpowermac

sjpowermac

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D6700 said:
To compensate for the brief lull in passenger activity, here's my photo of 68026 at York last night, with the 21:45 to Scarborough. As the 20:46 service only left at 21:41, this train was almost deserted!

View attachment 68432
Click to expand...
Fantastic image. It’s not just a lull in passenger activity either; so far as I’m aware there were no light loco moves or test trains today!
 
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daikilo

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Would it be fair to say that the last couple of weeks of operation are more a case of validating design rather than proving it is correct? I do find this rather surprising given the originally intended EIS date and, what I assumed would be, a rigorous test regime.
 
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LittleAH

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EE Andy b1 said:
I just hope TPE get these trains in service properly before blowing there trumpet of how good they and there trains are.

We should have two trains running before the end of September.

We should have about 12 trains running every day, NOW!
Click to expand...

Strange post, given we all know the real reason for the delay has been the manufacturer... Can't remember when any new trains on the network have ever come a) on time b) without snags.
 
tpjm

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sjpowermac said:
Thanks for that, I’ll be interested to see the advert when it’s finished.
To answer your question, I think there being three Class 68s at Scarborough has happened a few times, certainly on the first day of passenger operation there was 68027 on the Nova 3 set in platform 1, along with 68023/28 under the canopy.
Click to expand...

I actually had four Class 68s in yesterday.
TP06/68029 (marketing) on Platform 1
TP11/68026 (pax train) on Platform 2
68023 on Platform 3
68028 on Platform 4
 
EE Andy b1

EE Andy b1

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LittleAH said:
Strange post, given we all know the real reason for the delay has been the manufacturer... Can't remember when any new trains on the network have ever come a) on time b) without snags.
Click to expand...

Not strange at all. Do you know how bad TPE are? We all know the problems with the rollingstock and CAF and all other manufacturers, but the problems with TPE started long before the Mk5a sets started to arrive. The Mk3 debacle as well.
So before we see some lovely, everything is wonderful with TPE advert, let's at least have a descent running timetable, because if you think all is well then you obviously don't use TPE that often. TPE are worse than Northern at the moment and that's saying something.
TPE ordered the Mk5a sets, they must have told CAF what they wanted at a price, they decided on the interior layout, they cancelled training with the Mk3s and the in service operation, they have messed up delayed training of staff, so I would say that TPE management, not frontline staff, management have nothing to gloat about.
Please let me know if I'm wrong!!
 
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Roger B

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I have some sympathies with EE Andy B1’s posts. Yes, CAF’s products have had more than their fair share of troubles. And I’m sure that TPE and its staff are doing all they can to address issues and get their new fleets into service as soon as possible.

At the outset TPE could have gone for 3 fleets: 185s, Nova1s (802s) and Nova2s (397s). But TPE decided to go for four, including the Nova3s (68s + Mk5As), with the associated increased maintenance costs and impacts on flexibility and utilisation, because they believed that this would result in faster delivery of its new fleets into service.

The way things are going, it’s looking like an increasingly safe bet that the three new fleets won’t be in full service any faster than would have been the case if TPE had ordered more Nova1s instead of the Nova3s, given the rate of delivery of the Nova1s, and Hitachi’s ability to spread construction across multiple sites.

OK, so hindsight’s a wonderful thing. But issues getting the Stadler 68s to communicate with the CAF Mk 5As caused major delays, because the manufacturers had concerns about sharing data with each other. You don’t need much experience of the railway industry (or any other) to know that this would cause problems, and if it couldn’t be resolved when drawing up contracts, alarm bells should have been making quite a din. So it was something of a gamble for TPE’s management to proceed without commitments from both manufacturers. A gamble that’s backfired, since TPE will incur the ongoing additional costs of running four fleets, without having had the benefit of getting their new fleets into service appreciably earlier.

And as for the seating ...
 
sjpowermac

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Summary of Mk5a sets.
Does anyone know the location of sets TP07/TP08? Any corrections and as always I’ll update and stand corrected:)

Set/Status/Location/Comments

TP01 Storage/MOD Longtown
TP02 Storage/MOD Longtown
TP03 Storage/MOD Longtown
TP04 Accepted/Longsight (?)/last used driver training 20.08.2019 with 68025
TP05 Storage/MOD Longtown
TP06 Accepted/Scarborough/
TP07 Not Accepted/?
TP08 Not Accepted/?
TP09 Accepted/Longsight/In passenger service with 68027
TP10 Not delivered
TP11 Accepted/Longsight/In passenger service with 68026
TP12 On test/MID/currently with 68030
TP13 Not delivered
Spare DT Not delivered

Hopefully either TP06 or TP04 will soon be ready for passenger service and a second daily diagram. It’s been great to see the successful introduction of the Nova 3 since the first public run on 24.08.2019. Yes, there have been a few well publicised glitches, but on most days the trains have completed the full diagram without incident.

Best wishes to all involved with the project, fantastic to see things coming good:)
 
tpjm

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EE Andy b1 said:
Not strange at all. Do you know how bad TPE are? We all know the problems with the rollingstock and CAF and all other manufacturers, but the problems with TPE started long before the Mk5a sets started to arrive. The Mk3 debacle as well.
So before we see some lovely, everything is wonderful with TPE advert, let's at least have a descent running timetable, because if you think all is well then you obviously don't use TPE that often. TPE are worse than Northern at the moment and that's saying something.
TPE ordered the Mk5a sets, they must have told CAF what they wanted at a price, they decided on the interior layout, they cancelled training with the Mk3s and the in service operation, they have messed up delayed training of staff, so I would say that TPE management, not frontline staff, management have nothing to gloat about.
Please let me know if I'm wrong!!
Click to expand...
As “management” I would disagree with some of the points you’ve raised above but I’m not in a position to explain the “why” to you publicly on the internet.
 
EE Andy b1

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tpjm said:
As “management” I would disagree with some of the points you’ve raised above but I’m not in a position to explain the “why” to you publicly on the internet.
Click to expand...

There will always be something that passengers and even staff never get to know fully.
The blame has to go somewhere, for passengers sake, they pay enough.
 
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paddington

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Rode a Nova 3 last week to Scarborough, it was disappointing. Rocky and bumpy with uncomfortable seats, freezing, wifi not working, mobile and GPS signals couldn't pass through the windows for half the journey, problems with the PA and the automated announcements. I much preferred the regular 185 on the way back.
 
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keith1879

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tpjm said:
As “management” I would disagree with some of the points you’ve raised above but I’m not in a position to explain the “why” to you publicly on the internet.
Click to expand...

It seems clear to me that CAF have failed to fulfil their contract with TP and that the trains have not been available for training (and hence) reliable service until many months after their promised introduction. As a fare-paying passenger I can only view my relationship with TP.....but to ascribe everything to bad management on the part of TP (as the previous poster did) seems simplistic to me in the extreme. This sort of issue is an inevitable result of fragmenting the network.......if one organisation procured, built and operated the trains then we could easily blame them if things went wrong. I've been a regular passenger on TP for many years (less so since last October). The product has not been great recently but I wish you well in improving it - and appreciate the complexities in trying to do so. (The alternative for me is driving over the M62.......it will be a cold day in hell before that is a better option).
 
sjpowermac

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Furton said:
Would also like to know this as I need to go to Leeds from Liverpool tomorrow and wouldn't mind trying out the new train.
Click to expand...
I have no inside information but it’s always worth checking if the 5E23 04:33 Longsight to Liverpool Lime Street has run and if it has actually originated from Longsight. This is the train used to work the Nova 3 set on to the diagram that starts with the 05:56 Liverpool to Scarborough. Maybe others will be able to advise you with more certainty.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y83002/2019/09/13/advanced
 
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Ben Bow

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keith1879 said:
It seems clear to me that CAF have failed to fulfil their contract with TP and that the trains have not been available for training (and hence) reliable service until many months after their promised introduction. As a fare-paying passenger I can only view my relationship with TP.....but to ascribe everything to bad management on the part of TP (as the previous poster did) seems simplistic to me in the extreme. This sort of issue is an inevitable result of fragmenting the network.......if one organisation procured, built and operated the trains then we could easily blame them if things went wrong. I've been a regular passenger on TP for many years (less so since last October). The product has not been great recently but I wish you well in improving it - and appreciate the complexities in trying to do so. (The alternative for me is driving over the M62.......it will be a cold day in hell before that is a better option).
Click to expand...

If you saw what front line staff see on a daily basis then you would understand the poor management comments. In general the hands-on managers are doing their best and achieving some good results, but it's the failure of management at a senior level to properly plan and co-ordinate the huge task which TPE faces in introducing its three new fleets which is causing serious problems.This affects all fleets, not just the CAF ones. The 802 training programme for example is an utter and complete mess. Plans are being made then changed constantly. Interestingly, it seems the m.d. will be moving to pastures new in the not too distant future.
 
Erniescooper

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sjpowermac said:
I have no inside information but it’s always worth checking if the 5E23 04:33 Longsight to Liverpool Lime Street has run and if it has actually originated from Longsight. This is the train used to work the Nova 3 set on to the diagram that starts with the 05:56 Liverpool to Scarborough. Maybe others will be able to advise you with more certainty.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y83002/2019/09/13/advanced
Click to expand...
It should start running again tomorrow for seven days on the slightly longer diagram that was in use Monday and Tuesday. Sets should alternate through the runs with hopefully a third set being added next week.
 
sjpowermac

sjpowermac

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Erniescooper said:
It should start running again tomorrow for seven days on the slightly longer diagram that was in use Monday and Tuesday. Sets should alternate through the runs with hopefully a third set being added next week.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for that, always greatly appreciated.

It’s certainly a long diagram starting at Longsight at 04:33 and finishing there at 01:35 the next day:)
 
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