• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Worcestershire Parkway station progress

Status
Not open for further replies.

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,446
Location
London
Having used to work in Worcester several years back it's good to see the progress in this considering the project was entirely dead. I used to commute on the road the station was on and was in the area a few months back so good to see the work being done. I presume all the parties are now much less opposed to stopping there (or have been forced to?) than they were before?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,038
Having used to work in Worcester several years back it's good to see the progress in this considering the project was entirely dead. I used to commute on the road the station was on and was in the area a few months back so good to see the work being done. I presume all the parties are now much less opposed to stopping there (or have been forced to?) than they were before?
Not in the slightest. Cross country have reluctantly agreed to stop their least important trains there in return for dumping the Bromsgrove stops, and GWR are stopping the London trains probably mostly at the cost of Pershore stops. Nobody except the county council is even remotely enthusiastic about this gratuitous pointless waste of money.
 

Llanigraham

Established Member
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,074
Location
Powys
Nobody except the county council is even remotely enthusiastic about this gratuitous pointless waste of money.

Really?
Funny how many of our friends that live in the North and East side of the city are very much in favour of the new station since they won't have the bother of trying to get to Shrub Hill station.
 

Dr Day

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2018
Messages
541
Location
Bristol
We'll see soon enough whether
Nobody except the county council is even remotely enthusiastic about this gratuitous pointless waste of money.

My guess is that it will be popular for the London market, although may abstract a bit from other stations, but many of the benefits of the initial concept for commuting to Birmingham or as a short cut for say Gloucester-Oxford trips will be lost due to the lack of frequency and poor or unreliable connections.

One for another thread, but a major re-think of routes, stopping patterns and re-cast of the whole XC (hence much of the network!) timetable is needed to enable this type of regional connectivity to be viable by rail and reduce car use (even if people have to use the roads to get to a Parkway station to start their journey!).
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,230
Not in the slightest. Cross country have reluctantly agreed to stop their least important trains there in return for dumping the Bromsgrove stops, and GWR are stopping the London trains probably mostly at the cost of Pershore stops. Nobody except the county council is even remotely enthusiastic about this gratuitous pointless waste of money.

There will actually be more trains calling at Pershore each day from December and a number of off-peak Cotswold Line trains (plus the Turbo on the morning halts service to Oxford and Didcot) will not call at the Parkway station.

We'll see soon enough whether

My guess is that it will be popular for the London market, although may abstract a bit from other stations, but many of the benefits of the initial concept for commuting to Birmingham or as a short cut for say Gloucester-Oxford trips will be lost due to the lack of frequency and poor or unreliable connections.

One for another thread, but a major re-think of routes, stopping patterns and re-cast of the whole XC (hence much of the network!) timetable is needed to enable this type of regional connectivity to be viable by rail and reduce car use (even if people have to use the roads to get to a Parkway station to start their journey!).

I've no idea why you think it was meant to be anything to do with commuting to Birmingham. The county council has always talked about creating long-distance connectivity for Worcestershire from the Parkway station, as it envisages that the commuters will continue to use the two central stations in Worcester.

And there will be no journey time advantage for anyone wanting to make a journey between Gloucester and Oxford via Worcestershire Parkway, compared with travelling via Swindon and Didcot - indeed with the GWML speed-up of services and the London-Cheltenham service going hourly, the route via Didcot is likely to be the faster by a fair margin. When it comes to a price comparison, we will have to wait and see.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,929
Has anything been said about bus links to the city centre, or are arriving passengers just going to be left floundering, like those arriving by National Express coach and being dumped at the sadly bus-less rugby stadium?
Anyone requiring bus links to Worcester, wouldn’t they be better off just travelling to one of the two city centre stations? Anyone coming from Cardiff or Newport would probably be better off changing trains to the GWR service at Gloucester or Cheltenham Spa.
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
My guess is that it will be popular for the London market, although may abstract a bit from other stations, but many of the benefits of the initial concept for commuting to Birmingham or as a short cut for say Gloucester-Oxford trips will be lost due to the lack of frequency and poor or unreliable connections.

One for another thread, but a major re-think of routes, stopping patterns and re-cast of the whole XC (hence much of the network!) timetable is needed to enable this type of regional connectivity to be viable by rail and reduce car use (even if people have to use the roads to get to a Parkway station to start their journey!).

This is a really important point. I'm sure we can all think of other new or re-opened stations where stopping trains are too few and irregular. Even worse when commentators on here simply dismiss them as white elephants because patronage is low. It's a little bit like the chicken and the egg dilemma, but passengers won't come if the right services are there, but train companies won't introduce the services if there are not the passenger numbers already there. A leap of faith is required.

Connecting trains are often not a viable option for commuters, so ideally Worcester Parkway needs to have a choice of fast, direct trains to Birmingham and London that get commuters to work between 7.30 and 9.00 with a similar number of return workings to get the commuters home, leaving Birmingham or London between 4.15 and 6.15. For the rest of the day one train per hour could suffice, but it's the peak time commuter market that is key.
Apologies for stating the obvious here, but there is a risk that the obvious is being missed with the plans for Worcester Parkway.
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
I've no idea why you think it was meant to be anything to do with commuting to Birmingham. The county council has always talked about creating long-distance connectivity for Worcestershire from the Parkway station, as it envisages that the commuters will continue to use the two central stations in Worcester.
.
The M5 motorway can be a nightmare. Birmingham commuters need more options.
 

brompton rail

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2009
Messages
754
Location
Doncaster
Isn’t the only bus service First’s X50 Worcester -Pershore -Evesham? This runs hourly along the main road ( a walk away) from around 07.00 to 18.00. Not very inviting even if you live in the Redhill area of Worcester. Joined up public transport isn’t really something that happens in Worcestershire
 

Dr Day

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2018
Messages
541
Location
Bristol
I'll be honest - I haven't read the business case but had naively assumed somewhere within an hour of Birmingham would have been considered 'commuter' territory, hence some form of appropriate service for the distance (say half hourly) would have been considered.
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,230
This is a really important point. I'm sure we can all think of other new or re-opened stations where stopping trains are too few and irregular. Even worse when commentators on here simply dismiss them as white elephants because patronage is low. It's a little bit like the chicken and the egg dilemma, but passengers won't come if the right services are there, but train companies won't introduce the services if there are not the passenger numbers already there. A leap of faith is required.

Connecting trains are often not a viable option for commuters, so ideally Worcester Parkway needs to have a choice of fast, direct trains to Birmingham and London that get commuters to work between 7.30 and 9.00 with a similar number of return workings to get the commuters home, leaving Birmingham or London between 4.15 and 6.15. For the rest of the day one train per hour could suffice, but it's the peak time commuter market that is key.
Apologies for stating the obvious here, but there is a risk that the obvious is being missed with the plans for Worcester Parkway.

The M5 motorway can be a nightmare. Birmingham commuters need more options.

I'll be honest - I haven't read the business case but had naively assumed somewhere within an hour of Birmingham would have been considered 'commuter' territory, hence some form of appropriate service for the distance (say half hourly) would have been considered.

People going to Birmingham already have decent rail options from two busy stations in the centre of Worcester, which have frequent trains on two routes to and from Birmingham, especially during the peak periods, and with extra rolling stock on the way. Getting hold of one of the limited number of parking spaces at Shrub Hill is also likely to become a bit easier once the Parkway opens, as some of the London passengers who hoover up spaces from early in the morning at the moment can be expected to change stations.

Unless and until CrossCountry gets extra and higher-capacity trains, there is not a snowball in hell's chance of it providing lots of services that would permit commuting between Worcestershire Parkway and Birmingham - and even then it would probably prefer to focus on long-distance traffic, rather than see yet more services packed to the doors with short-distance commuters in the West Midlands.

At around two hours' journey time, Worcester is well beyond regular commuting range from Paddington. The London traffic is typically people travelling there on the odd day for work reasons or leisure travellers.

Isn’t the only bus service First’s X50 Worcester -Pershore -Evesham? This runs hourly along the main road ( a walk away) from around 07.00 to 18.00. Not very inviting even if you live in the Redhill area of Worcester. Joined up public transport isn’t really something that happens in Worcestershire

Discussions about the X50 buses turning off the main road and going down to stop outside the station building are taking place but if the bus bit of First Group can't see money to be made, it won't be doing anything more, and the county council's bus subsidy budget was pared to the bone some time ago.
 

GoneSouth

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
745
We'll see soon enough whether


My guess is that it will be popular for the London market, although may abstract a bit from other stations, but many of the benefits of the initial concept for commuting to Birmingham or as a short cut for say Gloucester-Oxford trips will be lost due to the lack of frequency and poor or unreliable connections.

One for another thread, but a major re-think of routes, stopping patterns and re-cast of the whole XC (hence much of the network!) timetable is needed to enable this type of regional connectivity to be viable by rail and reduce car use (even if people have to use the roads to get to a Parkway station to start their journey!).
It does intensely annoy me when we start designing our public transport systems around access by car. People in cars already have a more reliable and cost effective way of getting themselves, their families and baggage around. Those of us without cars rely on access to transport where we live and not 20 minutes drive into the countryside. Adding a 6 mile taxi fare each way does push the cost of a daily commute to Birmingham to unsustainable levels so let’s hope the new station doesn’t lead to the closure of Shrub Hill when everyone jumps into their cars to avoid it.

Personally I think XC should have diverted some trains through SH as it’s only a few minutes to walk into the centre of the city (but I guess this could only happen with a huge increase in capacity of XC Brum-Cardiff).

The new station will almost certainly have a sparse (if any) bus service, adding to the difficulties of using it for non drivers.

Ducks and awaits incoming fire ;)
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
I'm lead to believe by a colleague in the booking office at work, that the fare to Birmingham, will be considerably more, than the fare from the existing Worcester stations, and looking at tbe timetable, there would only be one reasonably timed train for commuters. It appears that station isnt geared around Birmingham commuters, but longer distance travellers.
 

GoneSouth

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
745
Anyone requiring bus links to Worcester, wouldn’t they be better off just travelling to one of the two city centre stations? Anyone coming from Cardiff or Newport would probably be better off changing trains to the GWR service at Gloucester or Cheltenham Spa.
Spot on. What is a bit frustrating is the fact that the existing GWR Bristol-Malvern can’t use the station as it would have been a useful place to change for Gloucester/Cheltenham - Oxford. But you can’t change the history of railway building. :E
 

GoneSouth

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
745
Discussions about the X50 buses turning off the main road and going down to stop outside the station building are taking place but if the bus bit of First Group can't see money to be made, it won't be doing anything more, and the county council's bus subsidy budget was pared to the bone some time ago.
I have to say generally buses in and around Worcester do seem pretty poor, Sundays is a no go!
 

Llanigraham

Established Member
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,074
Location
Powys
At around two hours' journey time, Worcester is well beyond regular commuting range from Paddington. The London traffic is typically people travelling there on the odd day for work reasons or leisure travellers.

I wouldn't be so sure about that time limit for commuters. There are plenty of people who commute over that time into London, and certainly when we lived in Worcester some years ago there were people doing it.
 

SquireBev

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2017
Messages
197
Location
From Brighouse, now in Brum, via Worcester
It does intensely annoy me when we start designing our public transport systems around access by car. People in cars already have a more reliable and cost effective way of getting themselves, their families and baggage around. Those of us without cars rely on access to transport where we live and not 20 minutes drive into the countryside. Adding a 6 mile taxi fare each way does push the cost of a daily commute to Birmingham to unsustainable levels so let’s hope the new station doesn’t lead to the closure of Shrub Hill when everyone jumps into their cars to avoid it.

Personally I think XC should have diverted some trains through SH as it’s only a few minutes to walk into the centre of the city (but I guess this could only happen with a huge increase in capacity of XC Brum-Cardiff).

The new station will almost certainly have a sparse (if any) bus service, adding to the difficulties of using it for non drivers.

Ducks and awaits incoming fire ;)

Abso-bloody-lutely.

The aforementioned National Express stop at the Worcester Warriors ground being a prime example.

As I understand it, National Express coaches used to come right into the city centre, to the Crowngate bus station. Someone then had the idea of diverting them to the Warriors ground, as it was at that point one of the Park and Ride sites, and so had a reasonable bus service to and from town. This was fine, until the Park and Ride service was withdrawn, leaving the coach stop completely cut off from the bus network, and accessible only by car. They didn't seem to realise that people use National Express coaches precisely because they don't have a sodding car!
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
Abso-bloody-lutely.

The aforementioned National Express stop at the Worcester Warriors ground being a prime example.

As I understand it, National Express coaches used to come right into the city centre, to the Crowngate bus station. Someone then had the idea of diverting them to the Warriors ground, as it was at that point one of the Park and Ride sites, and so had a reasonable bus service to and from town. This was fine, until the Park and Ride service was withdrawn, leaving the coach stop completely cut off from the bus network, and accessible only by car. They didn't seem to realise that people use National Express coaches precisely because they don't have a sodding car!
The bus services in Worcestershire are very poor, and expensive. Think theres going to be more service revisions in October, which probably means more journeys withdrawn
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,157
Location
West of Andover
I'm lead to believe by a colleague in the booking office at work, that the fare to Birmingham, will be considerably more, than the fare from the existing Worcester stations, and looking at tbe timetable, there would only be one reasonably timed train for commuters. It appears that station isnt geared around Birmingham commuters, but longer distance travellers.

And I suspect that you won't be able to go via Worcestershire Parkway on a Birmingham - Worcester stations ticket when it appears on the roueting maps.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
And I suspect that you won't be able to go via Worcestershire Parkway on a Birmingham - Worcester stations ticket when it appears on the roueting maps.
As I understand it will be a higher fare payable from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham, than from the existing Worcester stations, I wouldnt think travel via Worcestershire Parkway from the existing Worcester stations to Birmingham will be permitted. By the time you have caught a train down to the Parkway, and then got a connection, the journey to Birmingham will probably be quicker on the existing route anyway.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,038
Abso-bloody-lutely.

The aforementioned National Express stop at the Worcester Warriors ground being a prime example.

As I understand it, National Express coaches used to come right into the city centre, to the Crowngate bus station. Someone then had the idea of diverting them to the Warriors ground, as it was at that point one of the Park and Ride sites, and so had a reasonable bus service to and from town. This was fine, until the Park and Ride service was withdrawn, leaving the coach stop completely cut off from the bus network, and accessible only by car. They didn't seem to realise that people use National Express coaches precisely because they don't have a sodding car!
Worcester is pretty much ground zero for why Britain will be better off without FirstGroup in the bus industry. Having a council that would rather build a massively over-architected mess of a station in a field somewhere than fund a proper service doesn't help, but even going back to the BadgerBus days First have tried nothing in Worcester and are all out of ideas.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
As I understand it will be a higher fare payable from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham, than from the existing Worcester stations, I wouldnt think travel via Worcestershire Parkway from the existing Worcester stations to Birmingham will be permitted. By the time you have caught a train down to the Parkway, and then got a connection, the journey to Birmingham will probably be quicker on the existing route anyway.
They would probably want to discourage this in any case, because the few Birmingham trains stopping at the Parkway will have less spare capacity than the considerably more trains from the central stations.
 

PartyOperator

Member
Joined
26 May 2019
Messages
166
It would also slightly reduce XC's ability to set high prices. An anytime peak single from Cheltenham to New Street is £26.25, Cheltenham to Worcester is £10.20 and Worcester to New Street is £8.80. You can't split because the Worcester stations aren't on the Cheltenham-Birmingham line, but including Worcestershire Parkway in this group would let people going between Birmingham and Gloucestershire/Bristol/South Wales get a cheaper ticket.
 

RealTrains07

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2019
Messages
1,748
I've no idea why you think it was meant to be anything to do with commuting to Birmingham. The county council has always talked about creating long-distance connectivity for Worcestershire from the Parkway station, as it envisages that the commuters will continue to use the two central stations in Worcester.

And there will be no journey time advantage for anyone wanting to make a journey between Gloucester and Oxford via Worcestershire Parkway, compared with travelling via Swindon and Didcot - indeed with the GWML speed-up of services and the London-Cheltenham service going hourly, the route via Didcot is likely to be the faster by a fair margin. When it comes to a price comparison, we will have to wait and see.

Maybe because Worcester doesn’t have a direct cross country service. One of the reasons why its being built to connect more direct trains services to Worcester.

I thought the XC Manchester - south coast services were meant to call at Worcestershire Parkway? Thats was what before now
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
I thought the XC Manchester - south coast services were meant to call at Worcestershire Parkway? Thats was what before now
I don’t think that’s ever been seriously proposed. (Assuming you mean the Manchester to Bristol trains, “south coast” is usually taken to be Bournemouth in the XC context.)
 

RealTrains07

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2019
Messages
1,748
I don’t think that’s ever been seriously proposed. (Assuming you mean the Manchester to Bristol trains, “south coast” is usually taken to be Bournemouth in the XC context.)
Thats what i mean just XC trains out of Manchester since Worcestershire Parkway is on the route
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,038
Maybe because Worcester doesn’t have a direct cross country service. One of the reasons why its being built to connect more direct trains services to Worcester.

I thought the XC Manchester - south coast services were meant to call at Worcestershire Parkway? Thats was what before now
Stopping some trains in a field somewhere out of town isn't exactly putting it on the cross country network either. Ultimately you'd just be slowing down the trains to allow users to make a change that could be better accommodated by running a decent service from Worcester to Cheltenham.
 

Weekender

Member
Joined
14 Oct 2018
Messages
123
Stopping some trains in a field somewhere out of town isn't exactly putting it on the cross country network either. Ultimately you'd just be slowing down the trains to allow users to make a change that could be better accommodated by running a decent service from Worcester to Cheltenham.
They stop at Tiverton Parkway which is just as you have described above so why not Worcestershire Parkway?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top