ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

7522 · 11 Sep 2019

No WiFi on my classic HST from Inverness either this evening (the 15:54 to Edinburgh) and also the disabled toilet was out of order but other than that it was a much better experience than a 170. The lack of underfloor engines is a big advantage and also the end doors.

Interior is a bit tired but was still comfortable.

I imagine the conductors don't like the slam doors though obviously due to dwell times but also because of people potebtially leaning out of windows. Our conductor had to give a strong reminder to a passenger doing this on board.

The HST's are much nicer than the 170's so would be disappointing to see the project abandoned. 158's are actually quite nice on these routes too as they have a good seating layout with plenty of tables and proximity to windows. The 158's also have a good interior with nice seats, reliable WiFi and USB charging. The lack of first class and underfloor engines does though make the HST have the edge over a 158.

Edit: and also 158's would need to be doubled up for capacity reasons.

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Northhighland · 11 Sep 2019

Notice XC seem to be getting on fine with their refurbs from Wabtec.

Seem to be running ok once mods are complete.

So GWR and XC seem to be able to get their sets out working while Scotrail can’t.

Surely there must be a way of sorting this Scotrail ness out?

158820 · 11 Sep 2019

As frustrating as it is the only way I can see it improving is when staff familiarity especially in maintenance gets better. Also the remedial plan of work that is meant to be going on but with everything on the railway it takes forever.

47271 · 11 Sep 2019

Northhighland said:
Surely there must be a way of sorting this Scotrail ness out?

If another thread is to be believed, the matter is in hand...

GLC · 11 Sep 2019

With the Scottish Government announcing that all (practical) lines will be electrified by 2035, could the HSTs last until then, before being replaced with electric stock? 15 extra years seems a long time but presumably that gives plenty of time for the HSTs to repay for their refurbishment

yorkie · 11 Sep 2019

Can we please try to keep this to actual updates. If

There is no point in repeating the same rants time and time again; it adds nothing of any value and we may as well lock the thread if that continues.

Also on a separate note, any speculative discussion should be posted in Speculative Ideas please.

Clansman · 12 Sep 2019

Another 158 sub in today. This time, surprisingly, for a 170 on Glasgow-Aberdeen runs. Even before the first HST moved to Scotland, a single 158 working Intercity runs south from Aberdeen was a rarity since the late 90s/early 2000s.

Also, just when it looked like ScotRail were getting their act together (admittedly in their own little way) with the HSTs, there's been a suspicious amount of DMU sub ins of recent times. The whole place feels like January again with the number of short forms, cancellations, and faults. The increase in 158s on 170 diagrams doesn't aid things one bit, but as already mentioned up this thread, when they're booked originally nobody complains. After all, the majority of the time a 158 can handle the average run up the east coast. Weekends and peak times are a different story entirely, of course!

Still remain hopeful that ScotRail can get their act together on the HSTs - there's a considerable effort to get reliability sorted. It's confirmed they are in talks with Angel about sourcing an additional power car for spares, thus bringing the total up to 55.

Worth remembering that it's not even been a year since the HSTs were introduced, though admitedley with everything ScotRail it's felt 10 times longer. A rule of thumb I personally go by to gauging how well it's going would be on Wabtec getting 1 refurb up per month on average until the May timetable change. If by then that's not been matched, and there's still 158s covering HST diagrams, then there definitley needs to be a major rethink as to what happens from there. To be honest, as much as people grumble about the project, there's no other alternative at this stage that would be any quicker.

ScotsRail · 12 Sep 2019

7522 said:
No WiFi on my classic HST from Inverness either this evening (the 15:54 to Edinburgh) and also the disabled toilet was out of order but other than that it was a much better experience than a 170. The lack of underfloor engines is a big advantage and also the end doors.

I did a return to Inverness yesterday - both on the HST. No wifi on either but I don't think I've yet been on a Scotrail HST where it has been available.

It may have been the same unit going up as you had coming down but the disabled toilet on the slam door from Glasgow was out of order from about 15 minutes into the journey as it was leaking all over the vestibule, had serious concerns that we were going to be cancelled or the carriage closed off but the conductor seemed to think it was just the water for the bowl rather than the waste. As I was facing that way it then became a game of guess how many people will try and get into the toilet despite the red sign being on and a yellow sticker saying "out of order" being placed above the door buttons.

Coming back on the 1854 to Edinburgh it was one of the new push button doors but before we left Inverness I had to sort things out for some foreign tourists who, as happened to me last month on a trip to Aberdeen on an HST, had been sold a reserved seat that didn't exist on the train. Scotrail really need to sort that out.

Both journeys suffered from what seemed to be an aroma of diesel filtering through the carriages, either that or the cleaning materials they are using are overly ripe.

Leisurefirst · 12 Sep 2019

Got I think the same HST this morning from Aviemore to Inverness bound for Nairn.
Got off at Inverness (had to go to ticket office as the office at AVM was unable to issue tickets and someone was working on the TVM) and the Aberdeen train was the same HST we got off of.
However just before departure it failed and they split a 158 in two to take us instead.
13 minutes late but at least not cancelled.

Highland37 · 12 Sep 2019

What caused it to fail?

jopsuk · 12 Sep 2019

further adventure in just how badly designed the cycle storage is- the space for two bikes only really fits a single mountain bike, and on some sizes, the handlebars will be in perhaps the worst position that could be possible.

lee craigie
@leecraigie_

Good one
@ScotRail
Your HST refurb bike storage is a distaster. The wheels don’t fit on the hooks and you can’t get more than one bike in the space. This train from Inverness is now stopped because the emergency door release was broken by the bars.

1:00 PM · Sep 12, 2019

hexagon789 · 12 Sep 2019

jopsuk said:
further adventure in just how badly designed the cycle storage is- the space for two bikes only really fits a single mountain bike, and on some sizes, the handlebars will be in perhaps the worst position that could be possible.

I think this was first mentioned way back when the first refurb was newly in service, it is an utterly appealing piece of design.

jopsuk · 12 Sep 2019

hexagon789 said:
I think this was first mentioned way back when the first refurb was newly in service, it is an utterly appealing piece of design.

But is this the first instance of a train being stopped because of the awful design?

hexagon789 · 12 Sep 2019

jopsuk said:
But is this the first instance of a train being stopped because of the awful design?

There was definitely a report of someone trying to either get two bikes on or a bike in when there was another already in, failing to do so and the guard simply telling them to leave it in the vestibule because the train needed to leave. Can't recall of it was on this forum though.

I'm sure there will have been other instances of delays caused by issues loading bikes.

jopsuk · 12 Sep 2019

But in this case, it seems the bike has been loaded succesfully (despite not really fitting), the passenger has sat down, and then the train has been stopped as the motion has cause the handelbars to break the glass and push the emergency door release.

This is not a weird sort of bike to want to take on the Highland Mainline.

Leisurefirst · 12 Sep 2019

Highland37 said:
What caused it to fail?

They didn't say but I think I overheard something about the doors.
Was right at departure so makes sense.
Just really pleased they split the 158 on platform 2 instead of cancelling.
Heard some grumbling regarding the whole getting off and walking around etc. (there was a lot of luggage on board!) but at least everyone got away not too late.

Highland37 · 12 Sep 2019

jopsuk said:
But in this case, it seems the bike has been loaded succesfully (despite not really fitting), the passenger has sat down, and then the train has been stopped as the motion has cause the handelbars to break the glass and push the emergency door release.

This is not a weird sort of bike to want to take on the Highland Mainline.

Well said. What an appalling service. Most would agree that it's worse than the 156s, 158s and 170s for bikes. Apparently Abellio won the franchise on "quality". Shame Citylink don't allow bikes.

BRX · 12 Sep 2019

jopsuk said:
further adventure in just how badly designed the cycle storage is- the space for two bikes only really fits a single mountain bike, and on some sizes, the handlebars will be in perhaps the worst position that could be possible.

That looks like a complete design disaster.

Even if the space worked - I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to be able to hang bikes on hooks like that. Might be fine for a young strong person with a lightweight bike, but what about someone older, with back problems, and/or a steel framed bike? Especially if they are still trying to sort it once the train is moving.

Highland37 · 12 Sep 2019

Basically the railway is getting its way - it doesn't like bikes and doesn't want to carry them. Therefore, when there is an opportunity to design them out such as on the HSTs, it is taken. Every iteration of new trains has seen less and less bikes.

nat67 · 12 Sep 2019

I'm not sure if this has been said but could they have not used the power car luggage area. So the (old guard office).

marks87 · 12 Sep 2019

BRX said:
That looks like a complete design disaster.

Even if the space worked - I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to be able to hang bikes on hooks like that. Might be fine for a young strong person with a lightweight bike, but what about someone older, with back problems, and/or a steel framed bike? Especially if they are still trying to sort it once the train is moving.

To be fair, hooks like that are what’s in original HSTs. Not to say they’re any easier to get bikes on, but the design isn’t new.

The way the hooks are positioned is, though. It’s obvious they had a space and just crammed in what they could.

At least that’s now two complaints ScotRail have had on Twitter in less than a week. They tried to claim that mine was the first but I seriously doubt that.

Aictos · 12 Sep 2019

Question is why are the power cars NOT being used for cycles etc??? There must have been a reason for that poor design!

ld0595 · 12 Sep 2019

So if they're not using the power cars for bike storage, is there realistically only space for one bike per train? (Plus maybe a smaller one if you can wedge it in?)

Alanko · 12 Sep 2019

Poor 43146 appears to have been tagged and hastily cleaned up, spotted in Waverley yesterday.

I wonder where and when the graffiti happened?

Northhighland · 13 Sep 2019

Highland37 said:
Basically the railway is getting its way - it doesn't like bikes and doesn't want to carry them. Therefore, when there is an opportunity to design them out such as on the HSTs, it is taken. Every iteration of new trains has seen less and less bikes.

They don’t seem to like passengers very much either!

Highland37 · 13 Sep 2019

nat67 said:
I'm not sure if this has been said but could they have not used the power car luggage area. So the (old guard office).

Scotrail don't want to and don't bother to explain why.

They promised at least 20 spaces and delivered two that don't work.

Northhighland · 13 Sep 2019

Alanko said:
Poor 43146 appears to have been tagged and hastily cleaned up, spotted in Waverley yesterday.

I wonder where and when the graffiti happened?

That I can’t happen if the train is moving regularly. Too much time sitting idle.

43096 · 13 Sep 2019

Northhighland said:
That I can’t happen if the train is moving regularly.

You've obviously never heard of overnight stabling.

Northhighland said:
Too much time sitting idle.

Same might be said of those posting the same clichéd comments on this thread.

Highland37 · 13 Sep 2019

The service is a farce. Really poor. My partner, 10 year old and 4 week old baby are on the cancelled train from Inverness to Glasgow. It's terminating at Perth and they are going to Girvan. 170 obviously which is standing in for the unreliable HSTs.

Northhighland · 13 Sep 2019

43096 said:
You've obviously never heard of overnight stabling.

Same might be said of those posting the same clichéd comments on this thread.

And those posting the cliched answers.

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