The Terror of Class 153 Rail Travel

Failed Unit · 12 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Yes! The legroom is absolutely awful. The noise also contributes to making them pretty unbearable, even compared to the pretty bad noise of the 156's.

One thing I think I will say in their defence is that the toilets are actually pretty good. In a 2x 153, there's a good provision and they're well lit and seem more cleanly than those of other units.

At least EMR has promised no more single carriage running soon due to them getting a few more units cascaded. After that, once they're used just for strengthening 156 consists, I think that will reduce the 'terror' significantly.

Be interesting which set people sit in when then are joined. I have always gone for the 156 when a choice is available.

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yorksrob · 12 Sep 2019

I rather like the 153's, so long as there's not a single one deputising for something longer.

Got one strengthening a peak hour Leeds-Lancaster service recently and it was a very plesant ride - preferable to the 150 it was attached to. What a pity they don't have one to strengthen the 10:19 off of Leeds on a Saturday !

Energy · 12 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
And in it we can link to threads entitled "The Torture of Class 220/1's" or "The Abhorrence of 185's"

I know the 220s have issues but what is the issue with 185s? Apart from overcrowding I dont think they are too bad. They were also all meant to be 4 cars as they planned to make them longer but the government said no. The government also cut down the order from 56 to 51 trains. 56 4 cars wouldn't be enough but better than what they are currently. The refurbished also looks nice.
I would much rather have a 185 over a sprinter and probably over northern's new trains.

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

Energy said:
I know the 220s have issues but what is the issue with 185s? Apart from overcrowding I dont think they are too bad. They were also all meant to be 4 cars as they planned to make them longer but the government said no. The government also cut down the order from 56 to 51 trains. 56 4 cars wouldn't be enough but better than what they are currently. The refurbished also looks nice.
I would much rather have a 185 over a sprinter and probably over northern's new trains.

Well firstly there's the overcrowding...
Then there's the seat reservations which take up almost the whole train and around 1/3rd of which never seem to be used.

The toilet situation is frankly a joke, there's a space saver in standard which is grim and you have to walk through first to get to the disabled. Very common for at least one of these to be out of order.

The doors are unsuitable for long journeys, you can't relax because all the noise and cold air pours into the cabin and freezes you! (Especially not good at night when you want a nap!) Not the level of comfort you'd expect for an IC service.

Redeeming factors is decent seats, modern interior (apart from loos) and plug sockets.

387star · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Been as there was one for the Pacers, then the 150's, I thought I should make one for one of the arguably worst trains in operation on UK rails today, the Class 153. It really completes the terrible trilogy of trains; Pacers, 150's and 153's.

There's the noise.

The terrible seating with no legroom.

And last, but not least, the fact that it allows for 1 carriage to be run on routes where a 1 carriage train should never EVER be deployed...

Years ago I boarded a Wessex 153 from Romsey to Dunbridge and I felt like I was on holiday as I used to often stay in a holiday cottage at Causeland on the Looe Valley Line. They had a distinctive smell..

That said their upkeep became shocking with ripped wall carpet,, broken armrests and cracked plastic on the seat backs

It was later a novelty to work them as a guard with their oddly placed door key switch

61653 HTAFC · 13 Sep 2019

AC47461 said:
Funny, I was just thinking that myself, there's only a handful of 155s (8 or 9?) but I wonder how they have fared compared the the 153s?
On the 153s, I wonder if they are just a victim in some respects of the resurgence in rail travel. When they were converted, many (but possibly not all) of the lines they were used on only needed single carriage trains, but it doesn't take much of an increase to fill them up entirely. I don't think the units themselves are all that bad, save for the fact that as many of them are likely for replacement soon means they're getting a bit tired, certainly the GA ones are.

There are 7 155s left, marginally better than 153s as all doors are the same width (no new cab invading the vestibule) and as they've all been recently refurbished they don't smell quite as foisty and damp. Now they've been sent East to retire by the sea, I rather miss them!

However there are certain journeys that a single 153 is adequate for (and where anything much bigger causes further problems). Just need to get rid of a row or two of seats, and space them out a bit more generously.

krus_aragon · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
And in it we can link to threads entitled "The Torture of Class 220/1's" or "The Abhorrence of 185's"

Given their reliability issues, how about "The Absence of 180s"?

Trainfan2019 · 13 Sep 2019

I use 153s on Crewe to Derby often and quite like them. I know they're old and dated but there's a nostalgic feel to them like pacers with original bus seats.

That aside, they are best when in 2 carriage formation and can be a pain to get off sometimes when the entrances are full of standing passengers.

yorksrob · 13 Sep 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
There are 7 155s left, marginally better than 153s as all doors are the same width (no new cab invading the vestibule) and as they've all been recently refurbished they don't smell quite as foisty and damp. Now they've been sent East to retire by the sea, I rather miss them!

However there are certain journeys that a single 153 is adequate for (and where anything much bigger causes further problems). Just need to get rid of a row or two of seats, and space them out a bit more generously.

Oh, I'd wondered where the 155's have gone. Not seen one at Leeds for a while now.

yorksrob · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Well firstly there's the overcrowding...
Then there's the seat reservations which take up almost the whole train and around 1/3rd of which never seem to be used.

The toilet situation is frankly a joke, there's a space saver in standard which is grim and you have to walk through first to get to the disabled. Very common for at least one of these to be out of order.

The doors are unsuitable for long journeys, you can't relax because all the noise and cold air pours into the cabin and freezes you! (Especially not good at night when you want a nap!) Not the level of comfort you'd expect for an IC service.

Redeeming factors is decent seats, modern interior (apart from loos) and plug sockets.

To be fair, most of those are to do with the intensive way they're used (although the whole railway is a lot worse off, since two toilets per carriage ceased to be the norm).

If the DfT had allowed TPE to order 4 carriage trains as intended, some of these problems would have been alleviated, but then TPE was only a service for us hicks in the sticks, so we got trains with less seating capacity than those they replaced.

Energy · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Well firstly there's the overcrowding...
Then there's the seat reservations which take up almost the whole train and around 1/3rd of which never seem to be used.

The toilet situation is frankly a joke, there's a space saver in standard which is grim and you have to walk through first to get to the disabled. Very common for at least one of these to be out of order.

The doors are unsuitable for long journeys, you can't relax because all the noise and cold air pours into the cabin and freezes you! (Especially not good at night when you want a nap!) Not the level of comfort you'd expect for an IC service.

Redeeming factors is decent seats, modern interior (apart from loos) and plug sockets.

These seems to mainly be with the operations which are a problem with TPE not the class 185s (seat reservations, overcrowding).

The toilets are more down to maintanence as I thought the other desiro trains have reliable ones or I have just not noticed the 350 ones being out of service. Also 2 toilets for a 3 car train sounds reasonable imo.

The doors are an actual fault with the train.

Trainfan2019 · 13 Sep 2019

The 6:40 Derby to Crewe was formed of 3 x 153s today. What determines 2 more carriages than normal? What were the 153s interiors like when new compared to now?

tomwills98 · 13 Sep 2019

F Great Eastern said:
I was in Wales recently and found 2x 153s couped far better than a single 150.

Agreed. My train in the morning was a 150 but is now two 153's, I don't know if they are slightly longer but it feels like there's a little bit more room.

Harbornite · 13 Sep 2019

They're not that bad.

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

krus_aragon said:
Given their reliability issues, how about "The Absence of 180s"?

Hahaha, set it up! I'm sure I'll have an opinion when I get subjected to them on EMR...

yorksrob said:
To be fair, most of those are to do with the intensive way they're used (although the whole railway is a lot worse off, since two toilets per carriage ceased to be the norm).

If the DfT had allowed TPE to order 4 carriage trains as intended, some of these problems would have been alleviated, but then TPE was only a service for us hicks in the sticks, so we got trains with less seating capacity than those they replaced.

Yeah, obviously PRM toilets take up more space, but having at least one per carriage, with every other one being a space saver is reasonable. I believe the 802's coming to TPE have a decent amount!

Central government definitely still sees Manchester/Leeds/Liverpool, etc as the sticks! And Northerners as hicks!

Out of interest, I compared Metro areas of Manchester to other cities and at 3.29 million it's larger than:

Dublin (1.9mil)
Las Vegas (2.46 mil)
Orlando (3.1 mil)

They definitely still see it as small and unimportant, despite this :lol:

Energy said:
These seems to mainly be with the operations which are a problem with TPE not the class 185s (seat reservations, overcrowding).

The toilets are more down to maintanence as I thought the other desiro trains have reliable ones or I have just not noticed the 350 ones being out of service. Also 2 toilets for a 3 car train sounds reasonable imo.

The doors are an actual fault with the train.

Two toilets seems reasonable for a three car train, but when you consider the amount of people crammed on it is less so. There were some design issues from the get go with the 185 loos I believe, something that had to be resolved during the refurb.

Also, one of them is only acessable by walking through first class, which is awkward for standard class plebs and obviously disrupts the first class passengers.

tomwills98 said:
Agreed. My train in the morning was a 150 but is now two 153's, I don't know if they are slightly longer but it feels like there's a little bit more room.

Yes! The car lengths of 153's are longer than those of the 150's. One redeeming factor at least...

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

Harbornite said:
They're not that bad.

For people with legs, I'd argue they are.

They're also one of the best weapons in a TOC's arsenal for causing misery for passengers. EMR and EMT in my experience have managed to deploy them at the worst possible times.

Energy · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Two toilets seems reasonable for a three car train, but when you consider the amount of people crammed on it is less so

This wouldnt as much of an issue if it wouldn't be for the government saying no to extending then to 4 cars and the government cutting down the order by 5 units. Of course fore 4 cars I would say 2 non disabled and one disabled

43096 · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
They're also one of the best weapons in a TOC's arsenal for causing misery for passengers. EMR and EMT in my experience have managed to deploy them at the worst possible times.

Ah, another keyboard warrior who thinks they can do better. Go on, tell us how you would have deployed the EMT fleet better, taking into account all passenger loadings.

Failed Unit · 13 Sep 2019

43096 said:
Ah, another keyboard warrior who thinks they can do better. Go on, tell us how you would have deployed the EMT fleet better, taking into account all passenger loadings.

Agreed they were given a poor hand when Central trains split up.

I know many routes on summer Saturday are full but it is robbing Peter to pay Paul. To strengthen the Skegness line pretty much the rest of the rural routes are down to 1 car. I understand the Skegness route is still full in the summer.

The have use 222s to help out from time to time but only so thinly you can spread the jam.

woodhouse122 · 13 Sep 2019

Try a 153 from Lincoln to Sleaford after 3pm to know what hell is

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

43096 said:
Ah, another keyboard warrior who thinks they can do better. Go on, tell us how you would have deployed the EMT fleet better, taking into account all passenger loadings.

Well not deploying one for the service leaving Matlock at 5pm on a bank holiday Friday! People were left on the platforms at Ambergate and things only got worse at Belper. Perhaps putting them on the Crewe line on that day would have been more sensible.

To be honest though, there is no service 153's are suitable for, just some are worse than others.

Failed Unit · 13 Sep 2019

Jozhua said:
Well not deploying one for the service leaving Matlock at 5pm on a bank holiday Friday! People were left on the platforms at Ambergate and things only got worse at Belper. Perhaps putting them on the Crewe line on that day would have been more sensible.

To be honest though, there is no service 153's are suitable for, just some are worse than others.

That is the problem where would you take it from? The 1645 Newark - Grimsby is normally doubled on a Friday and is still very cosy. It is 1 car the rest of the week and frequently leaves people behind so another service is suffering to make this happen on Friday. (Unless it is a maintenance spare)

XC victim · 13 Sep 2019

Personally I loved the class 155s when they were introduced and I still feel they are a good train now even if they are looking a bit worn. Having short legs is obviously an advantage when travelling on 155s (and 153s) and a single 153 really isn’t adequate capacity except for the quietest of rural lines. Give me 2+2 seating with tables and doors at the end of the carriage and I am a happy man

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

Failed Unit said:
That is the problem where would you take it from? The 1645 Newark - Grimsby is normally doubled on a Friday and is still very cosy. It is 1 car the rest of the week and frequently leaves people behind so another service is suffering to make this happen on Friday. (Unless it is a maintenance spare)

Hmm, perhaps the problem is worse than I thought.

This is an issue once again of the railways being painfully slow to respond to even modest increases in ridership.

Rick1984 · 13 Sep 2019

I think tables on a 1 car train unnecessary. If you took them out you could space out the other seats

Bletchleyite · 13 Sep 2019

Rick1984 said:
I think tables on a 1 car train unnecessary. If you took them out you could space out the other seats

The tables aren't very well spaced either and there aren't many of them so I doubt it would be noticeable. Removing 2-3 rows would do the job better.

Scott1 · 13 Sep 2019

Trainfan2019 said:
The 6:40 Derby to Crewe was formed of 3 x 153s today. What determines 2 more carriages than normal? What were the 153s interiors like when new compared to now?

It's often for the working later in the day. Where there is a spare from maintance they do try to put it on Crewe as its a known capacity issue line and has been for some time, but they will also try to strengthen it for events. Sadly the reality is they often end up knowing they are too short for events like Uttoxeter Races and have buses on standby ready for the inevitable left behinds at Derby.

route101 · 13 Sep 2019

Anyone know what the dividers are for in the 153s , a third of the way along?

route101 · 13 Sep 2019

trebor79 said:
TBH all of the 15x, are getting very long in the tooth. Sat on 153 and 156 today and they just seem ridiculously old fashioned - and I can remember the excitement as a child when they first started, so modern!
The noise levels are appalling. The 75mph top speed is too low for today's railway, as most routes involve at least some running on lines with a higher line speed so capacity is being wasted. There isn't enough legroom. I usually find myself inhaling exhaust fumes, which is totally unacceptable.
They're just dreadful. They were cheap and nasty when introduced, but were arguably appropriate for a system in managed decline.
I think they are completely unsuitable for today's railway. Really the whole lot ought to be scrapped and replaced with modern stock from CAF, Stadler or Bombardier. The industry would do well to work collaboratively and specify 2 or 3 designs to replace them. 1 local commuter type, 1 longer journey regional type. All bimodes for future electrification and to make use of current electrification where it exists.
158s are just about OK, although the EMR examples are a bit scruffy (the winged headrests are particularly uninviting covered in grey crud). They might as well be replaced too as they can't carry on forever.

I think 156s will be around for another 10 to 15 years .

LowLevel · 13 Sep 2019

woodhouse122 said:
Try a 153 from Lincoln to Sleaford after 3pm to know what hell is

The 1600 from Lincoln to Peterborough is not at all helped by the fact there's LNER advances to London sold on it despite it regularly leaving people behind. It should be barred to London advances and they should be sent via Newark instead.

The 1512 to Sleaford is rarely more than half full and primarily runs to get the unit in place to strengthen the school kids train from Sleaford.

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