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TfW Class 170's

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43096

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Mk4's running in West Wales, Heart of Wales and Shrewsbury - Crewe, with catering and first class? I think that's overkill
Try reading what I wrote! I said the Marches i.e. Cardiff-North Wales/Manchester. Sets displaced can then cover the 170 turns.
 
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Doveymain158

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Even though I’m a fan of loco hauled it would be overkill on certain routes. Units are adequate for some routes in West Wales you can always tag on an extra set of a train needs strengthening
 

Cardiff123

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According to Tony Miles over on WNXX forum, the full and accurate details of the 170/171 cascades to EMR will be detailed in the next issue of Modern Railways, so I think we can take what has been written in Today's Railways magazine with a pinch of salt.
 

RealTrains07

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If they really were going to EMR surely it would make more sense to avoid the 170s completely and send them straight to EMR in exchange for a similar number of 158s to do an internal cascade at TfW to release 150s onto the Valleys.
Would enable EMR to get a head start with training and saves TfW doing much traction at all!
Which is why is probably not true. So many rumours and inaccurate information has been posted in the EMR threads as well as magazines about the 170 covering all regional services. Sounds ridiculous to me

Considering it been known for a while that the long term plan was the GA 170s to stay in wales for the entire franchise not sure anything magazines say is accurate unless a managing director had a say in the article which is exactly what happened when 170s transfer to wales was announced
 

Bikeman78

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The 170's will run Maesteg - Cheltenham and Cardiff - Ebbw Vale services. Recently Ebbw Vale diagrams have been a mix of 2 car 150/158, 2x 153s, 3x 153's and 2 or 3 car 175 diagrams. In recent weeks it's mostly been 2x 153's but sometimes 3x 153's during peak services. So 1 170 can potentially free up 2, sometimes 3 153's at certain times. The 153's can then be reallocated to better fitting services like Heart of Wales or West Wales or Cityline thus freeing up 150's. It may not cover all Pacer diagrams but don't forget not all 30 Pacers are in use during the day.
There's also a good few trains in for PRM mods and 175's for interior refurbs as well, which although the PRM mods will still be going on into 2020, it will be less trains out at one time as there's a big rush at the moment to get as many done as possible. I heard it might be about 6/7 currently out of service. (150/153/158's)

I think there is only one 150 diagram on the Heart of Wales but every little helps. The Pembroke line is rammed in the summer. Even in winter one diagram does the 1738 Swansea to Carmarthen so a 153 is no good on that. Two out of three City line diagrams are already 153s. They cannot keep time. Pacers have a much better power to weight ratio and the brakes release faster. Are all 12 170s supposed to be in Wales by December?
 

PHILIPE

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I think there is only one 150 diagram on the Heart of Wales but every little helps. The Pembroke line is rammed in the summer. Even in winter one diagram does the 1738 Swansea to Carmarthen so a 153 is no good on that. Two out of three City line diagrams are already 153s. They cannot keep time. Pacers have a much better power to weight ratio and the brakes release faster. Are all 12 170s supposed to be in Wales by December?

There are 3 Diagrams on the Pembroke Dock Line, 2 x 150s and 1 x 153 which works 0642 Cardiff to Pembroke Dock 1400 Swansea to Pembroke Dock and 1934 Swansea to Carmarthen.
 

61653 HTAFC

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A micro-fleet for a specific route is relatively easy to manage, as only certain depots will sign both route and stock. Micro-fleets are more of a problem when used to make up the numbers as part of a larger common-use fleet, such as if Northern had a handful of 175s which were used alongside the rest of their DMUs.

A handful of 170s dedicated to HOWL which is only operated by a handful of crew depots avoids most of those micro-fleet issues. 158s can only run on the line if the suspension airbags are deflated, so aren't suitable for that route. The low linespeed isn't ideal for 170s, mind.
 

craigybagel

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A micro-fleet for a specific route is relatively easy to manage, as only certain depots will sign both route and stock. Micro-fleets are more of a problem when used to make up the numbers as part of a larger common-use fleet, such as if Northern had a handful of 175s which were used alongside the rest of their DMUs.

A handful of 170s dedicated to HOWL which is only operated by a handful of crew depots avoids most of those micro-fleet issues. 158s can only run on the line if the suspension airbags are deflated, so aren't suitable for that route. The low linespeed isn't ideal for 170s, mind.

The plan is for the HOWL units to interwork with the Crewe - Shrewsbury locals. Put the two together and you have four depots involved.

Heart of Wales is currently drivers from Carmarthen & Shrewsbury, guards from Carmarthen, Shrewsbury and Crewe.

Crewe - Shrewsbury local involves drivers and guards from Crewe, Shrewsbury & Chester.

If you were going to use a microfleet just for those routes, it does seem like a strange one to use. As nice as the 170s will be, there are cheaper fleets available that are also more suited to spending most of their day below 60mph.

There would also be a big question mark over what units will work the other services that are earmarked for 170s, namely the West Wales branches. They need something to work them, there aren't enough new units coming in. Whatever works them is surely going to work the HOWL as well.

The only plausible scenario I could see for the 170s to leave before the end of the franchise would be if some of the 175s were kept on instead. They don't yet have a new home, the new refurbishments have been done to a very high standard and staff don't need any training on them. But surely it that was the case then all the 170s would go, you wouldn't need a microfleet. 175s can and have worked everywhere the 170s are planned to go.
 

Rhydgaled

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A handful of 170s dedicated to HOWL which is only operated by a handful of crew depots avoids most of those micro-fleet issues. The low linespeed isn't ideal for 170s, mind.
The low linespeed is not ideal. The toilets plonked in the passenger saloon, draughts from the exterior doors and provision of large amounts of standing room isn't great for a long-distance route like the HOWL, particularly one that is marketed as for leisure travel (as a scenic route).

158s can only run on the line if the suspension airbags are deflated, so aren't suitable for that route.
When was the last time a 158 was able to run the HOWL in passenger service and what has changed since then to mean they now need airbags deflated? The two Wales & West route maps I found on the internet show the HOWL had an Alphaline service (ie. class 158s). If it was one map I might assume a mistake but given that it appears on both (with both Alphaline and non-Alphaline services shown using the route on one of them) I assume that 158s were once able to operate the service.
 

PHILIPE

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The low linespeed is not ideal. The toilets plonked in the passenger saloon, draughts from the exterior doors and provision of large amounts of standing room isn't great for a long-distance route like the HOWL, particularly one that is marketed as for leisure travel (as a scenic route).

When was the last time a 158 was able to run the HOWL in passenger service and what has changed since then to mean they now need airbags deflated? The two Wales & West route maps I found on the internet show the HOWL had an Alphaline service (ie. class 158s). If it was one map I might assume a mistake but given that it appears on both (with both Alphaline and non-Alphaline services shown using the route on one of them) I assume that 158s were once able to operate the service.

They have never worked over the HOWL in passenger service for reasons explained up thread. They have travelled over the route but locked out of use and attached to another unit. This was in 2007 when a major re-signalling project at Port Talbot overran by 4 days leaving units stranded at Carmarthen preventing them from fuelling and exams. The HOWL was used to get them out with the trains being worked with various combos of 153s , 150s and 175s with 158s attached to 150s and 153s. Back in the late 90s, Railtrack cleared them for the HOWL and a job was booked for a Saturday. However, on the Friday afternoon, Railtrack phoned in a panic to say they had made a mistake when saying they were cleared.
 

anamyd

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Hoping it's running a few minutes late so I can catch it as I'm going home.
just a few, it's passed Llanwern and realtimetrains estimates it'll arrive into Central at 1549 and depart at 1550
 

anamyd

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Graet clip and good stuff - so now there is 1 x 2-car 170 in Wales joining the 3-car 170 already here?
thanks :) I prefer my photos and video of 170207 arriving though :p these can be found at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/atw-keolis-amey-wales-stock-shortages.166304/page-67 posts 1988 and 1992 :)

and yes that's correct!
2x 170/2s (3-car 170207 and 2-car 170270) now based at TfW Canton
and 10x 170/2s (7x 3-car units - 170201-206 & 170208 and 3x 2-car units - 170271-273) still at GA Norwich at time of writing
 
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anamyd

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White with red doors.
Almost too easy for TfW to put into service very quickly.
pretty much what me and the other guys at the end of the platform said to 170207's arrival on the 1st :D

a link to the page my photos and video of that are on is in post 80.
 
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anamyd

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It's just occured to me that for now, 170270 is the newest built train ever on the domestic Welsh franchise, as it was built in 2002! Not 2001 like the last of the 175 build, oh no. 2002! :lol:
 

Neptune

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It's just occured to me that for now, 170270 is the newest built train ever on the domestic Welsh franchise, as it was built in 2002! Not 2001 like the last of the 175 build, oh no. 2002! :lol:
Wait til 170273 arrives
 

Dr Day

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Will be interesting to see if TfW fleet control can actually manage to put out the new fleet as per the diagrams - at the moment regardless of booked traction type the Cheltenham-Maesteg routes gets a mish mash of everything from 3-car 175s to Pacers on any given day. But with limited clearance elsewhere on the network presumably options for swapping around will be more restricted?
 

krus_aragon

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Will be interesting to see if TfW fleet control can actually manage to put out the new fleet as per the diagrams - at the moment regardless of booked traction type the Cheltenham-Maesteg routes gets a mish mash of everything from 3-car 175s to Pacers on any given day. But with limited clearance elsewhere on the network presumably options for swapping around will be more restricted?
That and limited staff training: there aren't many other places the 170s can be sent at the moment.
 
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