Manchester Piccadilly Points Failure (13/09)

Jozhua · 13 Sep 2019

Points failure at Piccadilly today, seems about 80-90% of services are either delayed or cancelled.

Arrived at Piccadilly to catch a train to Euston, train arriving into Piccadilly was 30 minutes late. Seems there's about two announcements going on at once for all the delays, platform changes and cancellations.

If anyone has any insight I would be very grateful!

RailUK Forums

Sweetjesus · 13 Sep 2019

I am also at Piccadilly. Seems like nobody has a clue as to what's going on unfortunately.

I would also like to know the specifics of the points failure out of curiosity.

js1000 · 13 Sep 2019

Problem arose at about quarter to 8. Appears to be affecting a section of track into platforms 13/14 from the south. Trains into these platforms are having to avoid it altogether and 'skirt' around it as my train did this morning. As a result some 'up' services are having to use platform 13 instead of 14 and this is having a knock-on effect on services to/from bay platforms 5-12 such as London Euston etc as they're having to move across their having to cut across paths.

AMD · 13 Sep 2019

Points 2356 (see attached pic) lost detection, ie the signaller had no confirmation of which way they were sitting. They were sorted at 10am, however they faulted again at half 10.

bearhugger · 13 Sep 2019

I was planning to travel on the 09:11 York to Leeds and then on the 10:49 Leeds to Settle tomorrow morning (14th September). Does anyone have any idea whether services may be disrupted or is it likely the points could be fixed overnight?

AMD · 13 Sep 2019

Network Rail are planning to do a fix overnight

bearhugger · 13 Sep 2019

AMD said:
Network Rail are planning to do a fix overnight

@AMD Thanks for the prompt reply - looks like I can stick to my itinery of Middlesbrough - York - Leeds - Settle - Carlisle - Newcastle - Middlesbrough. I was just about to plan a couple of alternatives, either going to Carlisle via Newcastle as I normally do or going to newcastle and getting a day ticket for the Tyne & Wear Metro and bagging /spotting the units there.

M60lad · 13 Sep 2019

It seems due to this points failure that most TPE services from Manchester Victoria-Manchester Airport were cancelled today with passengers having to transfer to Piccadilly by Metrolink then onward to Airport by Train.

PHILIPE · 13 Sep 2019

Sweetjesus said:
I am also at Piccadilly. Seems like nobody has a clue as to what's going on unfortunately.

I would also like to know the specifics of the points failure out of curiosity.

Seems as though very little is going on. In cases like this, the public look for visible staff to whom they can address their enquiries but unfortunately they are of little help because they don't know what is or going to happen themselves. They are not involved in the decision making process themselves so are, in effect, isolated from the type of information required

Xenophon PCDGS · 14 Sep 2019

Any news to report from Network Rail about their overnight works to correct the fault? Saturday, especially with good weather being forecast, would see an influx of leisure travel on the longer-distance TPE routes and Northern routes from Manchester Airport railway station.

Fortunately for us early on Friday, we had decided to take up the offer from one of our sons early on Friday to drive us there and back to the nursing home on the Fylde coast to visit my wife's 90 year old eldest sister rather than to take the usual taxi to Manchester Airport station for the Northern service to Blackpool North, then a taxi from there to the nursing home. I understand from a friend of the family that quite a number of Manchester Piccadilly-bound passengers on the Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street all-stops service that left Manchester Airport about 1000 on Friday decamped at Mauldeth Road station where that train had been stationary for quite some time and took taxis from the local company or the number 50 bus onwards into the centre of Manchester.

Howardh · 14 Sep 2019

Was at Piccadilly and couldn't understand a word of the male station announcer, I ended up as part of a gaggle asking a Northern employee and he didn't know either. Bad PA system or poor diction, whatever, these days there's no reason why announcements shouldn't be clear.

How's about big screens just for announcements?

That aside yesterday showed just how much we need a fast bus/coach alternative from the airport to areas not connected to the metro. Would also relieve overcrowding due to cancelled trains.

Jozhua · 14 Sep 2019

Howardh said:
Was at Piccadilly and couldn't understand a word of the male station announcer, I ended up as part of a gaggle asking a Northern employee and he didn't know either. Bad PA system or poor diction, whatever, these days there's no reason why announcements shouldn't be clear.

How's about big screens just for announcements?

I found that there were often two announcements going on in Piccadilly station at once for the 20-30 mins I was waiting there.

The_Train · 14 Sep 2019

AMD said:
Points 2356 (see attached pic) lost detection, ie the signaller had no confirmation of which way they were sitting. They were sorted at 10am, however they faulted again at half 10.

If this was the issue and the points were actually still moving under the signallers command, couldn't NR have just sent someone out to do manual checks to confirm points were set as the signaller intended? Or does this sort of failure stop signals from clearing?

Jozhua · 14 Sep 2019

The_Train said:
If this was the issue and the points were actually still moving under the signallers command, couldn't NR have just sent someone out to do manual checks to confirm points were set as the signaller intended? Or does this sort of failure stop signals from clearing?

Yeah, I'm also thinking this.

Just send someone out with a walkie talkie or even get them to WhatsApp message back :lol:

, would be a bit unconventional but I don't see why it would be unsafe if done properly!

A temporary speed restriction of say 5mph would reduce risk even further.

Tomnick · 14 Sep 2019

The_Train said:
If this was the issue and the points were actually still moving under the signallers command, couldn't NR have just sent someone out to do manual checks to confirm points were set as the signaller intended? Or does this sort of failure stop signals from clearing?

You can’t clear signals without detection. You can talk past protecting signals at danger, but only with the points secured (clipped and scotched) - the points might be fitting up correctly, but it doesn’t mean that they’re correctly locked. You also have to consider the safety of the person that you’ve sent out to do this, given that it’s in the midst of multiple adjacent running lines on a viaduct.

Sweetjesus · 14 Sep 2019

PHILIPE said:
Seems as though very little is going on. In cases like this, the public look for visible staff to whom they can address their enquiries but unfortunately they are of little help because they don't know what is or going to happen themselves. They are not involved in the decision making process themselves so are, in effect, isolated from the type of information required

Unfortunately true and common in times of disruption.

It does appear that when I was at the station, trains were actually moving but only a few at a time. There was a lot of passengers who stayed around not realising they could have gotten a train to next major station to avoid the disruption.

A couple years back when I was visiting a different country and there was a disruption, they got most of the passengers out of the affected station to next major station for onward transport travel. It does seem to me that this was a possibility at Manchester Piccadilly but for some reason, was not taken advantage of.

Oh well, time to claim delay repay then.

yorkie · 14 Sep 2019

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is to discuss yesterday's disruption.

We have other sections to discuss things like Buses & Coaches, Other Public Transport (inc. Metrolink), and for speculative posts we also have a Speculative Ideas section.

Edit: I have split some posts here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...he-manchester-airport-metrolink-route.192140/ and the bus discussion can be found here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-an-express-bus-to-manchester-airport-be-viable.192143/ (it is time consuming for moderators to do this, so if people can post in the correct forum in future, this would be greatly appreciated and reduce our workload, thanks!! )

Manchester Piccadilly Points Failure (13/09)

Jozhua

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