So the top speed of these units is 110. The distance between Preston and Carlisle up the WCML is 85 miles. How is it the units can make this journey without being looped even once for a 125mph Pendolino to pass? When I'm standing on Harrow & Wealdstone station waiting for a Southern to East Croydon, the northbound Virgins appear very frequent.
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Class 350/4 - TransPennine Express
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
Faster acceleration? They outpace a 390 to at least 80mph.
Also there isn't quite as much Enhanced Permissible Speeds as on the WCML south of Preston for tilting trains to make quite as much of a time saving.
Bertie the bus
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I think you need to read the timetable. For starters only about 1/4 of the Pendolinos you see at Harrow & Wealdstone go to Preston, and secondly the 350s depart Preston at xx:04 with the next Pendolino not until xx:41. Plenty of time to not get caught.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not even 1/4. There are 9tph out of Euston in a normal hour. 3 are to Manchester, 2 are to Birmingham, 1 is to Liverpool and 1 is to North Wales. Just two of them go to Preston and beyond.
The south WCML is highly congested - the north WCML isn't! There's not only plenty of room for the 350s, but also for a number of 75mph DMUs and the likes.
The timetable has a lot to do with it:
The Northbound VT's depart Preston xx41 / xx53 and the TP depart Preston xx04 or 05.
The TP's follow the VT's North.
An Exception being
0803 TP to Glasgow (stops Lancaster / Penrith) circa 1 Hr 6 mins.
0815 VT to Glasgow (stops Lancaster / Oxenholm) circa 1 Hr 4 mins.
So they're about even over the course of the Preston - Carlisle leg.
The Northbound VT's depart Preston xx41 / xx53 and the TP depart Preston xx04 or 05.
The TP's follow the VT's North.
An Exception being
0803 TP to Glasgow (stops Lancaster / Penrith) circa 1 Hr 6 mins.
0815 VT to Glasgow (stops Lancaster / Oxenholm) circa 1 Hr 4 mins.
So they're about even over the course of the Preston - Carlisle leg.
Also to consider the pendolinos are only limited to 90mph from Lancaster northwards I believe so the journey times between there and Carlisle are more or less similar to each other.
I have seen on very rare occasions on RTT where a TPE gets looped for a virgin train between Lancaster and Preston though.
I have seen on very rare occasions on RTT where a TPE gets looped for a virgin train between Lancaster and Preston though.
driver9000
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Travelling north from Preston the 3 long distance passenger trains are grouped to run close together (xx:41, xx:53 and xx:04 ex Preston) and despite Virgin Trains running at 125mph it is not uncommon for the TPE services to be checked approaching stations having caught up with the preceeding train. Especially as the xx:53 is often running late. As already noted 350s are very quick off the mark up to around 65mph where the Pendo starts find its legs but they can be slow completing station duties and then leaving.
Heading south from Carlisle the TPE services lead the way being the first of the 3 trains but they are spread out a bit better with around 15 minutes between trains. Virgin Trains don't seem to catch up with the 350 going south.
Heading south from Carlisle the TPE services lead the way being the first of the 3 trains but they are spread out a bit better with around 15 minutes between trains. Virgin Trains don't seem to catch up with the 350 going south.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Where did you get that from?
Few 125 mph sections i think.
Nearly all 100mph from Preston to Lancaster and nearly all 125mph from Lancaster to Oxenholme.
dk1
Veteran Member
Beat me to it. Would've been the fastest section on any classic UK line at 135mph around Lockerbie if Virgin had got their way.
It might be between Oxenholme and Penrith actually as the journey does seem to be slower in that section. Don't believe there is any 125 mph sections though but of course coulld be wrong though.
But how many of those continue to Glasgow?
driver9000
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125mph north of Barton & Broughton loop to the 75mph approaching Lancaster (Southbound starts at Oubeck).
125mph from Morecambe South Junction to just north of Milnthorpe then 115mph followed by 105mph and then 110mph to the 90mph PSR at Oxenholme.
driver9000
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Nonsense. Shap Summit to the 90mph PSR approaching Low Gill is 125mph on the Up for Pendolinos. They also have a 125mph stretch from Kitchen Hill north of Penrith to Southwaite among other EPS speeds above 90mph.
If a TPE service is looped it is to restore booked running order and allow the faster train to go in front to minimise further losses to running time. Generally doesn't happen heading south as there are bigger gaps between trains and TPE is the first passenger train of the hour.
jhy44
Member
Hi all, trying to verify the capacity numbers of these units. The count on the Seating Layout on TPE website gives me:
Standard Class = 180 normal seats, 13 tip-up seats (in wheelchair & bicycle areas) = 193 total
First Class = 19 seats
Total Seated Capacity = 212 seats
However, their owners (Angel Trains) report 186 standard, 19 first class.
TPE don't appear to provide any official capacity figures.
I'm inclined to trust my own count from the seating plan, but does anyone know?
Thanks!
Standard Class = 180 normal seats, 13 tip-up seats (in wheelchair & bicycle areas) = 193 total
First Class = 19 seats
Total Seated Capacity = 212 seats
However, their owners (Angel Trains) report 186 standard, 19 first class.
TPE don't appear to provide any official capacity figures.
I'm inclined to trust my own count from the seating plan, but does anyone know?
Thanks!
swt_passenger
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I don’t know, but I think there’s been regular changes to DfT’s view of tip-up and/or perch seats, and whether or not they should generally be counted, depending exactly where they are. It’s been fairly common for franchise agreements to list rolling stock capacity figures different to rolling stock books (such as the Platform 5 series); presumably DfT figures are accurate in terms of being a snapshot taken at the time of franchise award, where the franchisees usually have to justify capacity figures against the ITT.
Another point, does a wheelchair space actually get counted in the capacity figure or not? That could easily vary the numbers by the odd one or two.
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