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Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

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TheGrandWazoo

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Aye, Fantastic.
Fantastic means extraordinarily good

In no way are they extraordinarily good. The Delaine are, Pulhams are, Brighton & Hove are.

Connexions aren’t. They’re a decent firm who are competing with 15 year old, partly repainted single deckers with a mix of elderly deckers and newer Solos.

You need to step away from your near pathological hatred of Transdev. They’re not amazing, Connexions aren’t fantastic.
 

radamfi

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Fantastic means extraordinarily good

In no way are they extraordinarily good. The Delaine are, Pulhams are, Brighton & Hove are.

Connexions aren’t. They’re a decent firm who are competing with 15 year old, partly repainted single deckers with a mix of elderly deckers and newer Solos.

You need to step away from your near pathological hatred of Transdev. They’re not amazing, Connexions aren’t fantastic.

But Connexxion (part of the Transdev group) isn't too bad! :D
 

Alexbus12

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Fantastic means extraordinarily good

In no way are they extraordinarily good. The Delaine are, Pulhams are, Brighton & Hove are.

Connexions aren’t. They’re a decent firm who are competing with 15 year old, partly repainted single deckers with a mix of elderly deckers and newer Solos.

You need to step away from your near pathological hatred of Transdev. They’re not amazing, Connexions aren’t fantastic.

Would someone remind me where in my two replies today Transdev was mentioned? And for your information I don't hate Transdev, far from it, I just have a dislike for some of the senior management....
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Would someone remind me where in my two replies today Transdev was mentioned? And for your information I don't hate Transdev, far from it, I just have a dislike for some of the senior management....
Really? So this fantasticalness has nothing to do with Transdev losing work?

So what in your experience is so #fantastic about Connexions?
 
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Alexbus12

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Really? So this fantasticalness has nothing to do with Transdev losing work?

So what in your experience is so #fantastic about Connexions?

It was nothing to do with Transdev, and was a praise of an independent which I rate highly, I do the same with other independent operators who gain work and expand. I've always had a pleasant experience with them, as I have with most Transdev services. But that's my experience and understand of others have had different.
 

SCH117X

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Possibly more than a coincidence that Connexions lost the 21 between York and Colton, along with other service reductions (X4,X6 for example), meaning they have vehicles sat about looking for work in the same way that Transdev had a fleet of owned Darts spare or almost spare at the time they won the tenders and hence being able to put in a low tender. Alternatively the cynic might suggest they put in a tender than was too low to get one over Transdev which is a dangerous tactic if it were true given the history of collapsed operators in Wharfedale - Pegasus, Aztecbird.
 

Swimbar

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Possibly more than a coincidence that Connexions lost the 21 between York and Colton, along with other service reductions (X4,X6 for example), meaning they have vehicles sat about looking for work in the same way that Transdev had a fleet of owned Darts spare or almost spare at the time they won the tenders and hence being able to put in a low tender. Alternatively the cynic might suggest they put in a tender than was too low to get one over Transdev which is a dangerous tactic if it were true given the history of collapsed operators in Wharfedale - Pegasus, Aztecbird.

I don't think there is any reason to believe that what you suggest is the case. Tenders frequently change hands after every cycle - Dales & District lost a number of Contracts to Hodgsons of Barnard Castle. These things happen all the time.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It was nothing to do with Transdev, and was a praise of an independent which I rate highly, I do the same with other independent operators who gain work and expand. I've always had a pleasant experience with them, as I have with most Transdev services. But that's my experience and understand of others have had different.

...but fantastic? Really. You should travel on The Delaine and your head would fry if Connexions are fantastic

I don't think there is any reason to believe that what you suggest is the case. Tenders frequently change hands after every cycle - Dales & District lost a number of Contracts to Hodgsons of Barnard Castle. These things happen all the time.

There's probably a bit of both on this. Tenders do indeed move regularly and, with one of the services you mention (29 Richmond to Darlington) has swapped between 3 operators on a regular basis since 2006. However, if Connexions have some spare capacity, it does allow the cost to be a bit sharper.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Possibly more than a coincidence that Connexions lost the 21 between York and Colton, along with other service reductions (X4,X6 for example), meaning they have vehicles sat about looking for work in the same way that Transdev had a fleet of owned Darts spare or almost spare at the time they won the tenders and hence being able to put in a low tender. Alternatively the cynic might suggest they put in a tender than was too low to get one over Transdev which is a dangerous tactic if it were true given the history of collapsed operators in Wharfedale - Pegasus, Aztecbird.

I think you might be overly cynical. You’re probably nearer the money with your initial view - Connexions have some spare resources. Mind you, it’s a fair distance from base (though in fairness, it’s not local for Transdev or most other folk).
 

darloscott

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Let's not forget that when the tenders went in for both of these rounds they wouldn't have known the outcome of either of them.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Let's not forget that when the tenders went in for both of these rounds they wouldn't have known the outcome of either of them.
Fair point though the Connexions reductions elsewhere may have influenced their approach.

When you look at both sets of tenders, it’s roughly a good result for Connexions, parity for Transdev, and Arriva losing out.
 

SCH117X

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Going back to when Transdev won most of the last round of Wharfedale tenders their were some snide comments from the Tockwith direction that Transdev had bid below cost, but however the "Cost" was worked out the free in terms of lease costs or balance of the purchase cost resulting from the availability of the Darts must have a significant influence.

Struggling to understand Transdevs service on Tuesday 24th - the publicised road closures mean there is no access from the north into Harrogate from 0915 yet they are only running the first 36 from Ripon at 0635 and the first true 3, the 0735 from the bus station (the first three workings being 36s). Its as if they have read the road closure as being 0815 in terms of the 3 and 0715 for the 36.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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back to when Transdev won most of the last round of Wharfedale tenders their were some snide comments from the Tockwith direction that Transdev had bid below cost, but however the "Cost" was worked out the free in terms of lease costs or balance of the purchase cost resulting from the availability of the Darts must have a significant influence

There are always ways in which costs and overhead can be dealt with, especially when there are other considerations (e.g. protecting market share, avoiding exit liabilities). That’s the same, irrespective of the operator.
 

RustySpoons

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Going back to when Transdev won most of the last round of Wharfedale tenders their were some snide comments from the Tockwith direction that Transdev had bid below cost, but however the "Cost" was worked out the free in terms of lease costs or balance of the purchase cost resulting from the availability of the Darts must have a significant influence.

I remember when CX took on the 965 service commercially, and for some reason so did Transdev and there was the unusual situation of two different operators operating the same service at pretty much the same time.

There was a lot of less than friendly comments between the two operators, CX apparently attended a meeting with Metro and said they'll take it on where Transdev didn't, Transdev said they'd already discussed it with councillors, etc etc. But Transdev managed to paint up a Dart in no time at all and brand it for the route, when they still hadn't got anything in a dedicated Wharfdale Links livery.. and I still don't think they do.

That just came across as a bit of a F-U move to CX to me. Why not build up the existing brand with a dedicated livery, instead choosing to try and get one over on another operator?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I remember when CX took on the 965 service commercially, and for some reason so did Transdev and there was the unusual situation of two different operators operating the same service at pretty much the same time.

There was a lot of less than friendly comments between the two operators, CX apparently attended a meeting with Metro and said they'll take it on where Transdev didn't, Transdev said they'd already discussed it with councillors, etc etc. But Transdev managed to paint up a Dart in no time at all and brand it for the route, when they still hadn't got anything in a dedicated Wharfdale Links livery.. and I still don't think they do.

That just came across as a bit of a F-U move to CX to me. Why not build up the existing brand with a dedicated livery, instead choosing to try and get one over on another operator?

The truth is out there somewhere but with claim and counter claim, it's hard to know. Certainly, neither operator covered themselves in glory and yes, it seemed that Transdev did pull out the stops to prove a point. All very unedifying.
 

Stan Drews

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Knowing a senior official at WYCA who was involved when First advised they were deregistering the 965, it was clear that CX airbrushed some of the facts at that time, although as you say, Transdev were a little childish too!
 

SCH117X

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Realised there are closures in place on the A61 between Ripon and Ripley on the 24th starting at 0800 but there does not seem to be any reason why the 0715 and 0725 36s from Ripon should not run.
There have been a couple of notable Transdev feet changes recently; the last non-school B10BLE (307) has been withdrawn at Starbeck, destined for further use as a driver trainer, with the rather bouncy IMO B7RLEs strengthening their dominance of non 36 / Electric routes with the arrival of a second Pride of the North former Manchester Cityzap vehicle, 1866.
Meanwhile the York depot now has Burnley Versa 215, of course not yet repainted, but it does bring together all ten of the 2012 Mercedes engine Versas for the first time at the same depot
 

Stan Drews

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There have been a couple of notable Transdev feet changes recently; the last non-school B10BLE (307) has been withdrawn at Starbeck, destined for further use as a driver trainer, with the rather bouncy IMO B7RLEs strengthening their dominance of non 36 / Electric routes with the arrival of a second Pride of the North former Manchester Cityzap vehicle, 1866.

1866 was never a Cityzap vehicle. The 4 former s/d Cityzap buses (1868-71) are all based at Rochdale and branded for their Red4 route.
 

RustySpoons

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There was one of the B7s in PotN livery that was often used as a MancZap spare... was the 09 plate one, not sure of the fleet number
 

Stan Drews

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1866 was also used on it. I mean to include the word spare, scroll down this page for example
https://gramha.net/explore-hashtag/prideofthenorth
I only found a recent pic of it on the York-Leeds Cityzap.
I’m fairly sure this one wasn’t in service (in PotN colours) at Burnley depot while the Manc-Leeds zap was in operation.
However, the B7RLE ranks at Starbeck have indeed been enhanced by another PotN liveried bus. Just nothing whatsoever to do with the Manc Zap!
 

NorthernSpirit

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Possibly more than a coincidence that Connexions lost the 21 between York and Colton, along with other service reductions (X4,X6 for example), meaning they have vehicles sat about looking for work in the same way that Transdev had a fleet of owned Darts spare or almost spare at the time they won the tenders and hence being able to put in a low tender. Alternatively the cynic might suggest they put in a tender than was too low to get one over Transdev which is a dangerous tactic if it were true given the history of collapsed operators in Wharfedale - Pegasus, Aztecbird.

I remember Pegasus, they ceased on the 4th November 2007 if I remember correctly and some work at the time was split between K Line (Teamdeck) and First before First took on most of the work before pulling out / losing tenders to TLC and Connextions.
 

davido39

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So, for the pro Transdev (large multinational operator) Do we think that this is for the benefit of the public, or the benefit of profit and shareholders? I remember the dirty tricks Stagecoach played in and around Hyndburn back in the late eighties, early nineties. As soon as they forced other operators out of business, they hiked prices, and cut services. Regulated competition should be encouraged, as it benefits the already struggling bus user. But all I see here is support for a large multinational corporate shareholders group. As we can see by the state of society, corporatism is the scourge on society.

And also a little reminder here, Transdev is not a British company, therefore, most of the profit will be passed to it'd french based HQ, as with most of the bus and rail companies currently is operation in the UK. We should be encouraging more home grown companies, instead of companies (including European state owned companies) from outwith the British Isles.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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So, for the pro Transdev (large multinational operator) Do we think that this is for the benefit of the public, or the benefit of profit and shareholders? I remember the dirty tricks Stagecoach played in and around Hyndburn back in the late eighties, early nineties. As soon as they forced other operators out of business, they hiked prices, and cut services. Regulated competition should be encouraged, as it benefits the already struggling bus user. But all I see here is support for a large multinational corporate shareholders group. As we can see by the state of society, corporatism is the scourge on society.

Can I hear the Internationale playing?

Not certain why this is directed at Transdev as it is an industry wide issue? However, just a few questions...

Buses were regulated from 1930, and from 1948, the majority of buses were state run either via municipalities or via the BTC/NBC until 1986. Yet bus patronage fell at a much steeper level as experienced now. Why was this?
Bus services in London and across Europe are operated predominantly by large multinational businesses such as Arriva, RATP and Transdev. So how do you avoid having corporate entities STILL making money from running buses?

Don't know about you but I'm looking for a return to the 1980s. I can go to Ripon bus station on a Sunday and see the equivalent of a brown vinyl seated Bristol VR running on an hourly service to Harrogate joined by some tragically loaded (what is the equivalent of an LH - a Streetlite?) couple of journey heading to Thirsk and York. Count me in, Brother!!
 

Deerfold

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So, for the pro Transdev (large multinational operator) Do we think that this is for the benefit of the public, or the benefit of profit and shareholders?

I'm not clear what the 'this' is that you're taking about here.

As you point out later in your rant, Transdev is a multinational, and as such has shareholders around the world.
 

Deerfold

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Quite a few Keighley routes don't actually show any times - mostly school and Sunday only services - even when you select the right day (and there's no indication that these routes aren't supposed to run every day).

The school routes which do show times don't let you know which are school-only routes and which are available to the general public.

Disappointing that Transdev seem to have largely ignored feedback to their new website a couple of weeks later.

No PDFs for most routes.
Keighley has no network maps, no description or maps of where tickets are valid.
The M4 is not back on the Keighley website.
The Keighley website lists school routes with no indication they're not open to the general public (something they fixed recently on their old website.
The 821 is still listed, despite having finished for summer.
If you pick a day a route doesn't run, there's no indication what days you should look at.

And they seem to have given up responding to any questions on Twitter about anything.
 
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