Island Line Railway - current state and the future

Chris M said:

I think at most stations (Ryde Esplanade excepted) access is currently essentially level so ramps probably aren't needed (platform height is something that is almost always ignored by those suggesting various other stocks to work on the island). I don't know if there are wheelchair spaces on the trains though?

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Sandown you have quite a large step up to the platform. There is no accessible are on the 483s

Chris M said:

I think at most stations (Ryde Esplanade excepted) access is currently essentially level so ramps probably aren't needed (platform height is something that is almost always ignored by those suggesting various other stocks to work on the island). I don't know if there are wheelchair spaces on the trains though?

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Don't think so...but you could probably just park up in the doorway area (of the doubld doors) and travel there without issue - the trains are rarely very busy and you wouldn't be causing an obstruction.

Xenophon PCDGS said:

Do all Southern Vectis buses have a specific wheelchair space?

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IIRC, the entire fleet is modern low floor vehicles, with the 'standard' wheelchair spsce.

hooverboy said:

if you don't like dealing with the banks then get the papers on the case and make david icke your island saviour with a go-fund-me page!.I'm sure he'd do his bit for the local economy and you'd get some very random backing from conspiracy theorists(actually why don't you host one of their conferences? maybe there's some mileage in shapeshifting reptilians!..seems to fill up in london!)

david icke is,after all, the messiah, so why not build a shrine?
works at area 51!!!

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Can't wait to see the new tuquoise livery !

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/end-of-the-line-amended-timetable-as-island-line-down-to-just-1-train/

Can't remember this situation before, normally there's a spare available.

Island Line will be running a reduced service over the coming days and until further notice due to technical issues – with just 1 train now available for service.

The 81-year-old trains, which have run on the Isle of Wight network since 1992, are really showing their age. Technical issues have now forced engineers to pull one out of service, leading to an hourly timetable between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin.

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Any idea where Darren got that story Chris125?

SWR have made following statement to Island Echo

UPDATE @ 10:20 – Island Echo has been told that the original poster (photographed above) is incorrect.

The hourly service until further notice will come into force at the start of Wednesday (18th September). This is due to the second train having to come out of service at the end of Tuesday due to a mileage-based inspection.

A spokesperson for South Western Railway has said:

“We are sorry but due to a safety issue with one of the Island Line trains we are currently only able to run one train an hour from start of service on Wednesday until further notice.

“The hourly service will connect with the ferries at Ryde Pier Head (xx.18 departures from Shanklin and xx.49 departures from Ryde Pier Head).

“We will return to our normal two trains an hour timetable as soon as possible, but the age of these trains and the difficulty in securing replacement parts, means this may take longer than normal.”

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Looks like the need for replacement stock is getting much more urgent then. About time they made a decision on the future fleet.

It's a pity none of the Victoria Line LU stock could have been used even as a stopgap when they were withdrawn in 2009. LU are due to replace much of the deep tube fleet in the next 10 years but it will be far too late by then.

Posts #1690 and 1691. Hopefully an announcement will be made next month

There are only one million holiday trips to the island per year. A lot of those will be day trips.
I am not convinced you could impose an acceptably low tourist tax that would make a serious dent in rail infrastructure costs.
It needs to come from ‘federal’ funds, just like infrastructure is paid for in the north.

Meerkat said:

There are only one million holiday trips to the island per year. A lot of those will be day trips.
I am not convinced you could impose an acceptably low tourist tax that would make a serious dent in rail infrastructure costs.
It needs to come from ‘federal’ funds, just like infrastructure is paid for in the north.

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There are many places on the Isle of Wight where day trippers visit that are not on the line area of the Island Line.

Meerkat said:

There are only one million holiday trips to the island per year. A lot of those will be day trips.
I am not convinced you could impose an acceptably low tourist tax that would make a serious dent in rail infrastructure costs.
It needs to come from ‘federal’ funds, just like infrastructure is paid for in the north.

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according to the government stats( for Q3 2016-Q3 2017) there was 2.38m visitors. ratio of domicile versus day tripper is about 4:1,(so about 1.6m) and the average stay was 4.8 nights.

at municipal charge of £1 per person per night that will equate to about £7m in revenue, which is probably enough...if they wanted to do it by domicile(assuming 2 adults+2 kids per room) that would still come to just shy of £2m a year.A couple of years of that and the project is paid for-financing via the bank for up front funds would not be a problem in this case.

The council just need to get more serious about drumming up new business by organising some large events.
https://visitwightpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Visitor-Numbers-YTD-Report-Final.pdf

hooverboy said:

according to the government stats( for Q3 2016-Q3 2017) there was 2.38m visitors. ratio of domicile versus day tripper is about 4:1,(so about 1.6m) and the average stay was 4.8 nights.

at municipal charge of £1 per person per night that will equate to about £7m in revenue, which is probably enough...if they wanted to do it by domicile(assuming 2 aduls+2 kids per room) that would still come to just shy of £2m a year.A couple of years of that and the project is paid for.

The council just need to get more serious about drumming up new business by organising some large events.
https://visitwightpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Visitor-Numbers-YTD-Report-Final.pdf

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Would this proposition be seen as the council deliberately acting against Southern Vectis, a company who provide public transport to island-wide services, including services that shadow the route taken by the Island Line.

There is already a business levy of 1.75% rateable value, min £150, on IoW tourist businesses to support tourism. Don’t think they would fancy another.
I also don’t think that the majority of the island’s hotels etc would be keen on being taxed to support a railway that benefits only those in one section of the island.

Xenophon PCDGS said:

Would this proposition be seen as the council deliberately acting against Southern Vectis, a company who provide public transport to island-wide services, including services that shadow the route taken by the Island Line.

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Which is of course part of the problem - the Island is quite small, and having competing transport providers is really unhelpful.

There’s a reference on the Keep Island line in Franchise Facebook page to an announcement tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

Bletchleyite said:

Which is of course part of the problem - the Island is quite small, and having competing transport providers is really unhelpful.

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I see the lack of a properly integrated travelcard for the island as a significant drawback to tourism.By making things much simpler for visitors you'll get an uptick in usage.
I do mean MUCH simpler, not online bonuses,freebies,codes,mobile only etc etc etc, this means a one stop ticket at point of sale(ie vending machine or travel centre) that is there in your face as an option as soon as you reach the ticket machine.

you have to remember that new visitors:
1)may not have english as a first language
2)may not be familiar with relevant websites to download apps to phones etc.
3)maybe more senior in years,so not entirely comfortable with "digital" purchases.

for the sake of a couple of extra pounds,the convenience factor will be far more important.
Sure, southern vectis will take the lions share of the revenue as they cover a much greater area, but you re then providing a choice of which mode of transport you wish to take.

for somewhere like greater london for instance, it would be a real pain in the backside if you had to buy seperate tickets for buses/underground/train.

people will pay for an all-in-one solution.(within bounds).
doesn't need much.
1 day,3 day or 7 day tickets(with single/family options) would do.if the average length of stay is 4.8 nights then most people would just buy the 7 day option anyway.

for new visitors,and old alike, making things as easy as possible means repeat business.

Meerkat said:

There is already a business levy of 1.75% rateable value, min £150, on IoW tourist businesses to support tourism. Don’t think they would fancy another.
I also don’t think that the majority of the island’s hotels etc would be keen on being taxed to support a railway that benefits only those in one section of the island.

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Tourist taxes are paid by the tourist not the establishment they are staying in. The only thing the establishment has to do is collect the tax and pass it onto the relevant authority.

ainsworth74 said:

Tourist taxes are paid by the tourist not the establishment they are staying in. The only thing the establishment has to do is collect the tax and pass it onto the relevant authority.

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True, but the businesses are already having to cover the cost of the levy, which is to fund increasing tourism, so having to raise prices even more to include tourist tax to do more of the same, but for only one part of the island, is going to be a tough sell politically.

Meerkat said:

True, but the businesses are already having to cover the cost of the levy, which is to fund increasing tourism, so having to raise prices even more to include tourist tax to do more of the same, but for only one part of the island, is going to be a tough sell politically.

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The Swiss model for this basically charges you for a mandatory public transport pass. Ideally it'd include Vectis.

How much of a charge would that be? Just concerned that it would put off tourists when the island desperately wants more tourists.

Meerkat said:

How much of a charge would that be? Just concerned that it would put off tourists when the island desperately wants more tourists.

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Bus pass prices:
£10 - 24 hour
£15 - 48 hour
£26 - any 5 days in a 2 year period
£25 - a week ticket

Therefore if you had a £8/night/bedroom (muli room accommodation would be charged 50% of the rate for each additional room after the second room, so a 2 bedroom unit is £16, a 3 bed unit is £20 and a 4 bed unit would be charged £24) travel tax which gave free use of buses and trains you'd being in a lot of revenue (easily £8 million/year) but probably not everyone would take advantage of it. Although some B&B rooms with 4 people in would be very good value there'll be a lot of rooms with 1 person in which would cover those who benefited the most from it. The reason for the discount on the multi room units is that for most users there's going to be kids or even only one person in the other rooms. It also limits the weekly cost to (for example in a for bedroom unit) £168 which is quite a lot extra on a family holiday.

You would certainly find a lot more bunk beds, meaning that there's likely to be 2 bed units which could sleep 5, which owners could do to make their accommodation more affordable to families by them not needing to have such a large unit.

Now obviously a lot of that money would go to the bus company, however even £2 million per year would likely sufficiently increase the income on the line which typically sees around 1.5 million passenger movements per year (probably not double but possibly getting on for 40% more, although once you account for lost revenue probably about the 20% more mark).

It would certainly be enough to justify 3*3 coach units, maybe even as much as 3*5 coach units (you'd certainly need to prove that you had enough capacity for those extra passengers who could use the trains because of the free travel they would be getting).

Over time it would likely result in fewer people taking their cars to the island, which could see more higher capacity (passenger only) ferries being used, especially between Portsmouth and the island.

If you could charge the tax on the festival and therefore provide free bus travel to it then you'd certainly see a massive benefit to the roads, pair this with the possible extra ferry capacity and it would make getting around during the time of the festival a lot easier. With fewer cars to accommodate the festival could even enlarge the number of people it could cater for.

It would have to be per person as the travel cards would be per person.
I don’t think the tourists would like it, and it’s a competitive market.

ScottGallagher said:

It's a pity none of the Victoria Line LU stock could have been used even as a stopgap when they were withdrawn in 2009. LU are due to replace much of the deep tube fleet in the next 10 years but it will be far too late by then.

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Merseyrail 507/508 units would serve them better now they are replacing them.
They would only need a half dozen plus a spare or two

The real problem with the Island line is the lack of places it goes.

Of course we will know the stations but what really is there around those stations for tourists...

Ryde, Sandown and Shanklin are all beach towns which is good but then its a long way to any other attractions on the island.
The Rover card which is about £25 a week allows you to use bus or train as much as you like but are the bus services really what tourists want.

The rail network is so limited now its hard to see many more people using it, especially given the lack of investment in the track by Network Rail (the amount of twist faults is simply incredible) and the TOC in the state of the rolling stock.
Its so old! It looks old, it feels old and the ride quality is old too. Its rare to not hear somebody either complain about the ride or joke about it because they are used to it being bad.

If SWT really want to make money from the Island line they are going to need to invest.
And the island residents are wanting them too. And you wouldnt see any objections to CPOs to extend the network either! Because the traffic on the roads is simply stupid...
St Marys roundabout upgrade scheme is coming up to problems at the minute because there is nothing in place to support the traffic chaos it will cause, so you cant fix the problems without causing problems that are even worse than the problem itself.

hooverboy said:

for somewhere like greater london for instance, it would be a real pain in the backside if you had to buy seperate tickets for buses/underground/train.

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Actually, you kinda do. If I make a journey that involves part train and part bus in London, even using Oyster or contactless, I still have to pay separately for each mode. And if my journey involves a combination of underground and train, then I'm probably going to pay more than if I'd made a journey covering the same zones that only used one of those modes. For those reasons, usually when I travel in London, I go to some effort to avoid using more than one mode of public transport if I can help it. So the Isle of Wight isn't so unlike London in that regard.

Yes I know you can buy a travelcard covering all modes, but for a few days and with pay-as-you-go caps, a travelcard is rarely worth buying.

The Ham said:

Bus pass prices:
£10 - 24 hour
£15 - 48 hour
£26 - any 5 days in a 2 year period
£25 - a week ticket

Therefore if you had a £8/night/bedroom (muli room accommodation would be charged 50% of the rate for each additional room after the second room, so a 2 bedroom unit is £16, a 3 bed unit is £20 and a 4 bed unit would be charged £24) travel tax which gave free use of buses and trains

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So let's run a real world example. Last year the wife and I made a week of going to Beer and Buses. 2 bed cottage was £324. Weekly bus tickets were £25 each (so £50 in total). Instead of paying £50 for bus tickets, you would like us to pay £112 as a tourist tax - a net extra £62 for our holiday - about 14% extra on our accommodation and on-island travel.

We'd be looking to go somewhere else for our holiday. Thanks, but no thanks.

Fawkes Cat said:

So let's run a real world example. Last year the wife and I made a week of going to Beer and Buses. 2 bed cottage was £324. Weekly bus tickets were £25 each (so £50 in total). Instead of paying £50 for bus tickets, you would like us to pay £112 as a tourist tax - a net extra £62 for our holiday - about 14% extra on our accommodation and on-island travel.

We'd be looking to go somewhere else for our holiday. Thanks, but no thanks.

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£112 sounds a bit high. About £5/person/night would seem about right, probably practically lower for camping. It works on the assumption that everyone pays but not everyone will use it.

Fawkes Cat said:

So let's run a real world example. Last year the wife and I made a week of going to Beer and Buses. 2 bed cottage was £324. Weekly bus tickets were £25 each (so £50 in total). Instead of paying £50 for bus tickets, you would like us to pay £112 as a tourist tax - a net extra £62 for our holiday - about 14% extra on our accommodation and on-island travel.

We'd be looking to go somewhere else for our holiday. Thanks, but no thanks.

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It was a weird plan since it seemed to angrily insist on double occupancy of rooms. If you are traveling alone/single parent/just don't like sharing you are already paying loads more for everything from accommodation to food to family tickets. Paying double for transport I may very well not even choose to use would almost certainly lead me to go somewhere else instead