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XC and GWR train crew shortages

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philthetube

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It depends on the industry but non shift based industries have very much moved away from the concept of paid overtime, indeed with hour banking schemes based on semi flexible principles automotive and much of the traditional manufacturing industries are now providing far less opportunity for paid overtime in the form of additional salary. Sundays falling outside of the working week but being a core service commitment thus requiring permanent overtime to cover is very much a quirk of TOC employment contracts which will at some point have to be addressed either by the TOC's or at re-franchising by DfT.

Hour banking wouldn't work, just move the problem.

The Solution I think should occur would be to pay time and a half for all rostered Sunday work,

A big lump of the cash would come quite quickly from increased fare revenue and reduced delay repay costs.

Maybe even double pay for overtime Sundays.

This should be written into all new franchise commitments but the conditions should be negotiated with the unions now.
 
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Llanigraham

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Surely, different people are at various stages of life? Young people just starting off with no families or older workers whose children have left home might look more favourably on Saturday / / Sunday work than people who have children that they wish to spend time with over the weekends? Why for example, can’t work be offered to the recently retired who might welcome a couple of days work over the weekend? Of course, I would not welcome loads of pensioners taking work from young people. What is clear is that the public deserve better than a situation where staff are not contracted to work Sundays. Can you imagine what would happen if nurses, police and firepersons were not obligated to work Sundays?

As has been stated previously here, how are you going to keep these peoples' route knowledge, their rules knowledge, their medicals, their regular examinations, and other things up-to-date if they only work weekends? All those things require work to be done IN THE WEEK.
And to be honest, most of the retired people I know are just as busy on the weekends as they are in the week (me included)!
 

Mintona

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Why on earth would ‘recently retired’ staff who’ve spent their whole career getting up/going to bed at 1/2/3am want to start doing it again when they’ve finally reached their retirement?!
 

dk1

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Why on earth would ‘recently retired’ staff who’ve spent their whole career getting up/going to bed at 1/2/3am want to start doing it again when they’ve finally reached their retirement?!
If & it's a BIG if that I ever considered driving trains after taking the lump sum & pension, the hours would be to suit me & me alone. Take it or leave it.
 

Urban Gateline

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Why for example, can’t work be offered to the recently retired who might welcome a couple of days work over the weekend? Of course, I would not welcome loads of pensioners taking work from young people.

Oh dear god no, there are already too many people still working in the railway post retirement age who are working jobs that young people are desperately seeking! :lol:
 

Mark J

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Is the Railway working week still Monday to Saturday, with Sunday classed as an overtime day - paid at time and a quarter?

Is this still true for new employees?
 

SECR263

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Would this work? Why not when recruiting new drivers state that they will have to work rostered Sundays as a normal day (no enhancements) as part of their employment contract. They would of course be paid a generous premium as part of their annual remuneration for this Sunday working which the existing drivers not doing Sundays would not receive. The normal drivers could not complain about others receiving a higher wage as they do not wish to routinely work Sundays. Those wishing the premium could transfer if they wished to the new terms and conditions permanently.
 

Meerkat

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It wouldn’t work because the unions are unreasonable.
It would also cause a lot of rostering headaches
 

dk1

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Would this work? Why not when recruiting new drivers state that they will have to work rostered Sundays as a normal day (no enhancements) as part of their employment contract. They would of course be paid a generous premium as part of their annual remuneration for this Sunday working which the existing drivers not doing Sundays would not receive. The normal drivers could not complain about others receiving a higher wage as they do not wish to routinely work Sundays. Those wishing the premium could transfer if they wished to the new terms and conditions permanently.
As has been said many times this would not be acceptable to the unions and is totally against the traincrew agreements at most depots. ASLEF are not going to tolerate a two tier system for new entrants and thus reducing their bargaining powers. Usually this is alien to anybody not within the industry.
 

Llanigraham

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Is the Railway working week still Monday to Saturday, with Sunday classed as an overtime day - paid at time and a quarter?

Is this still true for new employees?

In many cases, yes.

It wouldn’t work because the unions are unreasonable.
It would also cause a lot of rostering headaches

Are the Unions being unreasonable? I have seen NO instances of that. In fact I seem to remember it has been said many times that the Unions are willing to accept this subject to a suitable offer, but it is the ToC's who refuse to discuss it.
 

Mag_seven

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ASLEF are not going to tolerate a two tier system for new entrants and thus reducing their bargaining powers. Usually this is alien to anybody not within the industry.

There are plenty examples of two tier workforces in the rail industry so it's not as alien as you think!
 

sheff1

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Oh yes. Usually a race to the bottom as jealousy kicks in.

Indeed. Never ceases to amaze me how so many nowadays seem keen to worsen working conditions across the board, rather than fighting to improve poorer conditions as was the norm when I started work.
 

dk1

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Indeed. Never ceases to amaze me how so many nowadays seem keen to worsen working conditions across the board, rather than fighting to improve poorer conditions as was the norm when I started work.
It's the same as most things in life, if you don't get it, rubbish it. On the railway unity has such strength in most grades.
 

Mag_seven

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Because they don't have the same union strength?

Railtrack/Network Rail staff who joined after 1st April 1996 did not get Priv travel facilities thus a two tier workforce was created in an instant. As well as groups of workers represented by the generally weak TSSA, it also included the signalling community who could bring the network to a standstill and are represented by the relatively strong RMT.
 

dk1

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Railtrack/Network Rail staff who joined after 1st April 1996 did not get Priv travel facilities thus a two tier workforce was created in an instant. As well as groups of workers represented by the generally weak TSSA, it also included the signalling community who could bring the network to a standstill and are represented by the relatively strong RMT.
I know that & don't agree but what could you do then? Obviously I was ok as already had BR privs but thankfully due to technicalities I went over to a TOC instead & therefore got the best of both worlds in that fashion.
 

Eccles1983

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Railtrack/Network Rail staff who joined after 1st April 1996 did not get Priv travel facilities thus a two tier workforce was created in an instant. As well as groups of workers represented by the generally weak TSSA, it also included the signalling community who could bring the network to a standstill and are represented by the relatively strong RMT.


Are two people doing the same job for the same company in the same location paid differently?

Because that's what would happen if this two different contract gubbins took place. And also why ASLEF will not allow it to happen.

You can bark at the moon all you want about outside industry. Well newsflash - it's the railway and this is how it is. Pity other industries didn't follow it's lead instead of trying to drag it down to the lowest level.

When outside industry has the same pay parity levels based on Gender as the railway then I might be interested in listening.
 

Dr Day

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Surely two-tier doesn't have to mean one better than the other, just a different mix of Ts & Cs to cater for a mix of different personal priorities.
 

dk1

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Surely two-tier doesn't have to mean one better than the other, just a different mix of Ts & Cs to cater for a mix of different personal priorities.
Then unity is no longer a strength. It would become a headless chicken & cause untold chaos for rostering. It has to be done by majority vote.
 

Meerkat

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So convenience is trumped by a need for union power. Though surely different T&Cs doesn’t stop them being in the same collective bargaining for most issues.
The rostering will be more complicated but already has to deal with different route and traction knowledge and all the hours restrictions so hardly a showstopper.
 

dk1

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We are probably best to leave the subject of newly qualified drivers being on differing contracts & agreements, It never gets anywhere & we just end up going round in ever boring circles :{
 

class 9

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ASLEF policy is to have Sunday’s as part of the working week.
2 reasons why it isn’t universal, the TOCs that don’t have it are reluctant to introduce it due to the increased staffing it would need, therefore increased cost and the second reason is the staff themselves are unwilling to give up a condition of service that is a detrimental to family life.
 

O L Leigh

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So convenience is trumped by a need for union power.

Convenience for whom? I understand the desire of people who want to travel on Sundays, and if you look back at how the industry has changed you can see how this desire has been catered for by the increased level of service available compared to, say, 25 years ago. But in business, demand has to be balanced against cost and against the provider's needs also.

I think it's a bit simplistic to weigh "convenience" against "union power". Bringing in two tiers of contracts is a way of eroding terms and conditions; precisely the sorts of things that make the job physically and socially palatable to those who have to do it. Over time as older workers on the old contracts retire the new contract becomes the de facto terms and conditions. I don't think that it's wrong to try to ensure that everyone works to the same terms and conditions because we all face the same demands on our time and on our wellbeing whether we are at the start of our careers or the end.

The rostering will be more complicated but already has to deal with different route and traction knowledge and all the hours restrictions so hardly a showstopper.

Believe me, it is a showstopper.

Previously at my location the workforce was highly fragmented due to differences in route and traction knowledge and this caused mayhem. There could be four drivers sat spare but trains left at a stand because none of these spares had the required route or traction knowledge to work them. It was also highly wasteful for the company as it necessitated high levels of cross-cover from other depots and a heavy reliance on overtime. Steps have been taken to eradicate these differences with the aim of making it easier for us to cover our own work as well as giving us greater variety in our jobs.

I also don't believe that premium payments or enhanced overtime rates would immediately solve the problem. This has been implemented for another grade at my TOC in order to encourage greater up-take of Sunday work. This has been a roaring success, except that now my colleague would rather work a Sunday than overtime in the week. And so the problem has simply been moved from the weekend into the week.

I know that it is controversial and not universally popular, but to my mind the best compromise for covering Sunday work is "committed Sundays", where you are required to work a booked Sunday as overtime unless cover can be arranged. I'm very clear on my use of the word "compromise" because I know that it has a number of drawbacks, but it gives the TOCs the peace of mind that the work can be covered and the staff the ability to throw it in if they need to (although it is not necessarily guaranteed). Where Sundays are outside of the working week these days should be paid at whatever overtime rate is in effect at each company.

Bringing Sundays into the working week means that you have to work them irrespective and can only guarantee to get them off by using your annual leave entitlement (which can still be declined in the event that your application is outside of the daily quota and/or the work cannot be covered). To my mind, and in spite of what ASLEF's views are, this only presents a benefit to the companies and not the staff. Ultimately ASLEF's reasons for supporting this have nothing to do with representing the wishes and desires of their members but rather because it will drive up depot establishments, increase employment and indirectly increase their revenue stream due to higher membership numbers.

That said, the real answer to staff shortages is to recruit more staff. But will the TOCs wear the costs?

**ASIDE**

As XC have been specifically named by the OP, I would like to point out that recent changes within XC to the way that staff are allocated to cover the work has had an impact on staff availability that have very little to do with Sunday working or overtime working in general. The service may not have changed but the way in which it is being delivered has.
 

Mark J

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In many cases, yes.

I wasn't sure as I have seen GWR recruitment posters in the past stating the work entails "some weekends" - which I assumed included Sundays as well.

If this was the case, how can you have a two tier system whereby some staff don't have to work Sundays, yet all new starters would be forced to. I would have thought the "champions of the worker" - namely the Unions would have had something to say about this inequality.
 
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