They were the best way to get to London Bridge, Waterloo or Charing Cross. Now we have a much slower service that is useless for Waterloo or Charing Cross. Extending the Charing Cross - Gillingham service to Rainham would have been a much better idea than what they have given us.
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Thameslink services at Rainham
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I forget the incident, but there was a recent case where everything had to run slow line on the MML in the evening peak. In those circumstances you do not want anything terminating at W Hampstead or St Albans (both of which block the Down Slow platform), so the Suttons will be terminated at Blackfriars, extra stops put in the Lutons (from Rainham), and there is more capacity on the MML as a result.
Aictos
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That might be the case but according to various outlets, the St Albans were terminating and starting as booked, none were being terminated short hence my confused reaction to slowing the Rainhams even more.
Did the RPI not report this back to his boss and suggest further action is needed (i.e. barriers or more regular patrolling)? That said this is SE so if they had I wouldn't be surprised if nothing came out of it.
Everyone knows about it. Some builders I know learned by day three on the job in Kent no one pays so stopped getting tickets. Vast majority of stations have at least one entrance wide open all the way up to central London. SE losing a ton of money throughout their DOO services but don't seem to care
OxtedSignaller
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My understanding is there an agreement with Southeastern to cover these services. Thameslink revenue are also very rare on the East Grinstead and Littlehampton peak services from what I understand. I also find Thameslink revenue are much more active north of the river where as South of the river you only ever see them very rarely.
SE drivers are only covering this work for the next three months, then it'll be all GTR drivers.
Aictos
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So what’s happening to the SE drivers? Does GTR now have enough drivers?
Sitting around watching the telly, playing pool or darts. Certainly going home early a fair bit.
Aictos
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I may have occasionally used that service, but I have only used TL once. It tend to find that if timed right, it is equally as quick, if not quicker, to travel from London Bridge to Medway via St Pancras and High Speed than the lamppost express (stops at seemingly every one) provided by TL. Hadn't thought about using Gravesend as an interchange, though, so might investigate that.
As for the much vaunted "new destinations", given the HS is only 40-50 minutes (depending on boarding point) and TL is something like 1hr 15m, I have found I can leave later and connect with the earlier train at St Pancras when heading north!
swt_passenger
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Nothing showing in realtimetrains, and I don’t think any changes were expected this time round.
Change at Gravesend for a CHX service?
Kite159
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Or even Dartford, probably more options there for Charing Cross than at Gravesend.
Easier to connect into a High Speed service at Gravesend, plus they run semi-fast, but yes there are more options at Dartford.
Easier to connect into a High Speed service at Gravesend, plus they run semi-fast, but yes there are more options at Dartford.
Mikey C
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Rather disappointed that today (Saturday) the service is only hourly instead of half hourly, creating annoying gaps in the Greenwich Line timetable once more.
I thought it had (finally) gone over to the half hourly timetable as of May?
I thought it had (finally) gone over to the half hourly timetable as of May?
They have gone 2 tph.
However, as they are terminating at Dartford, running to the carriage siding to wait before the return to London today (Saturday, and future weeks) while engineering work is affecting the lines from Rochester - Rainham, the TL's are unable to terminate at Rochester (or before, but after Dartford) due to both the High Speed and North Kent - Victoria services terminating in plats #1/2 at Rochester.
However, as they are terminating at Dartford, running to the carriage siding to wait before the return to London today (Saturday, and future weeks) while engineering work is affecting the lines from Rochester - Rainham, the TL's are unable to terminate at Rochester (or before, but after Dartford) due to both the High Speed and North Kent - Victoria services terminating in plats #1/2 at Rochester.
Mikey C
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Thanks though this Dartford service is reduced to 1 an hour today as well. As for tomorrow, there seems to be engineering works everywhere with Cannon Street closed as well...
Apologies - I did intend to say it's usually 2 tph, but today it is a reduced service.
Mikey C
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No worries
From the local press today:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/uncertainty-remains-over-rail-service-212361/KentOnline said:
NR haven't managed the compulsory purchase of Chart Leacon for the extra stabling space in Ashford let alone started on construction...
NorthKent1989
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I’ve made my feelings known on this service, still think it should have kept the faster pattern east of Greenwich or maybe reroute it to run via Lewisham, to replace the Charing Cross (not sure when that final call will be made now that the SE franchise is up in the air again *eyeroll* ) but assuming the the Woolwich line does lose CX services then what’s the point in having a duplicate Cannon Street service via Lewisham? May as well keep the rail terminals options open and reroute Thameslink services there instead.
However what I can see happening in a few years is that once CrossRail starts up and is up and going for a few years, Thameslink will be withdrawn, especially once the East Croydon upgrade will be complete so they’ll run services to Surrey and Sussex as planned, plus in the event a CrossRail extension does go ahead, leaving the Rainham service in the hands of SE, I’m just too much of skeptic to believe that South East London would be able to have CrossRail and Thameslink.
However what I can see happening in a few years is that once CrossRail starts up and is up and going for a few years, Thameslink will be withdrawn, especially once the East Croydon upgrade will be complete so they’ll run services to Surrey and Sussex as planned, plus in the event a CrossRail extension does go ahead, leaving the Rainham service in the hands of SE, I’m just too much of skeptic to believe that South East London would be able to have CrossRail and Thameslink.
It doesn't need Thameslink frankly. They should just up Cannon St - Abbey Wood - Dartford/Loop by 2tph and even out the spacing, and have it as a metro that feeds Crossrail and DLR - as well as links LB and the City. That's pretty great connectivity.
And the 2tph can run via Croydon as you say, when the time comes - on a 12 car route.
And the 2tph can run via Croydon as you say, when the time comes - on a 12 car route.
NorthKent1989
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Was useful if one needed Woolwich Arsenal for the DLR or Charlton for Greenwich Peninsula quickly, not to mention Charing Cross is pretty much the centre of the West End and is handy for all that’s nearby but there is always Victoria which is handy.
This Ashford and Gillingham foolishness only came about because Thameslink trains from the north have to go SOMEWHERE and not because those areas needed it.
I very much doubt the Maidstone East service will ever start, and like people suggest, if they can sort Croydon out and send the pointless North Kent service that way, there'll be paths available for Gravesend/Medway to London via Crossrail instead (with the added benefit of not conflicting with the Cannon Streets at North Kent East junction).
brad465
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Whether the MDE line starts or not they'd better not give up on Chart Leacon for the sake of future stock demands. I presume though Thameslink having the Rainham service is doing SE a favour in regard to its stretched rolling stock fleet, so they'll have to hope come 2022 and Thameslink potentially getting more via Croydon that Crossrail goes beyond Abbey Wood, as I don't see any significant fleet replacement+expansion in place come 2022 (it might have been if the franchise was sorted out by now).
NorthKent1989
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Any CrossRail extension won’t be going any further than Gravesend/Ebbsfleet and even then we’re probably looking at the late 2030’s before any work will get started at the earliest, there has been no mention of CrossRail extending any further to Medway, though that would be great.
Thameslink just needs to speed up the service, if it’s to remain long term, then once East Croydon is sorted who knows what will happen.
One thing for certain I don’t think this Maidstone East service will materialise, GTR Have been very quiet on that front, I think best case scenario, it’ll be quietly delayed to 2020/2021, worst case scenario; it’ll be quietly and purposefully forgotten about by GTR.
Can't remember if this has been answered already - but, while I understand some of the TL services have to go "somewhere", why did they not just do a straight swap and keep the TL service with the old 'semi-fast' calling pattern via Lewisham/Blackheath/Woolwich? Not a local, but from an outsider's perspective, the 'old' service seemed to serve a purpose, of linking Medway and the larger stations/interchange points along this line, quite well. A bit like an eastern version of the Reading-Staines-Waterloo. What we now have is the equivalent of a Reading-Waterloo all stations, stopping at St Margarets, Wandsworth Town, Queenstown Road and all the rest!
NorthKent1989
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I think it was timetabling issues and constraints were the cited reasons I recall, as to why this became a stopper, the timetable was also padded out, so even though the Rainham service skips Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard, it is still slower than the CX-Dartford service which calls at those stations but not at New X & St. John’s obviously and the Cannon Street rounders which does call at every station.
Yes the old Gillingham service was indeed like the Windsor & Reading services from Waterloo, I would say this it had more in common with the Windsor service, which calls at more Greater London stations (Vauxhall, Clapham J, Putney, Richmond, Twickenham, Whitton,
Feltham, Ashford Surrey, Staines then all stops to Windsor) as opposed to the Reading service calling only at Clapham J, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham & Staines.
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