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Island Line Railway - current state and the future

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Meerkat

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“His investment” could mean ‘his’ in his corporate capacity.
Whichever, he still needs to get a return.
Also relevant is that Vivarail may have been keen to get a sale but also knew they were pretty much the only option other than closure.
 
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Whisky Papa

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I'm not convinced that made any practical difference to the headroom tbh - back in 1984 they managed to squeeze 03079 through Ryde Tunnel both ways with it's original 12ft 2in cab, it was the Up Line under Rink Road that proved too much.

If that bridge is an issue, surely it would not be beyond the local authority to consider rebuilding it, or perhaps even close and demolish it given that there is an alternative road quite close to the south? It already has a 3T weight limit so must be of limited use to the industrial premises on Rink Road.
 

Meerkat

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Is there any council plan to redevelop the fields south of Ryde, north of Smallbrook Lane?
Just wondering if there was a chance for a new purpose built depot with decent road access to make operation easier and allow the sale and redevelopment of the in town sites at St Johns and Sandown.
If there was road access it might also make sense to move Smallbrook Junction there to be a P&R for the ferry.
 

Whisky Papa

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It's not, at least not for at least another 20 years now rolling stock that fits under it has been ordered.

Very true, I just had never realised this bridge was the defining headroom limiter rather than the tunnels until Chris125's post.

On a slightly different tack, the last holiday I took on the IoW was in November 2015, a three night short break in the Travelodge in Newport. We happily paid up for the Southern Vectis weekly tickets, even though we would only get four days of use out of them. I thought they cost little more then than they had done when we took our very young son there in 1989, and again when we went in 1997 I definitely paid well over £50 for two adults and his child ticket. I would suggest at £25 per person they are now excellent value for a very good service.

One possible reason for the relatively higher price in earlier years was that they used to include the train, certainly in 1989. On our 2015 visit, we arrived by hovercraft and didn't need to use the train at all except for the final trip from Esplanade to Pier Head to get the ferry. Unfortunately it was too rough for the train to operate, so we walked (although a taxi was offered, I should add).

Edited to show current ticket price.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Does anyone have an annual ferry percentage figure of ferry usage in terms of both car and HGV transit of the Wightlink ferry service from Portsmouth to Fishbourne, in comparison to those ferries who use other island ports. Every time I used travelled to the Isle of Wight to the Fishbourne ferry terminal, there seemed quite a number of HGV using these ferries.
 

cactustwirly

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Does anyone have an annual ferry percentage figure of ferry usage in terms of both car and HGV transit of the Wightlink ferry service from Portsmouth to Fishbourne, in comparison to those ferries who use other island ports. Every time I used travelled to the Isle of Wight to the Fishbourne ferry terminal, there seemed quite a number of HGV using these ferries.

Well the Yarmouth ferries are too small for HGVs, so I would imagine HGV traffic is split evenly between Soton and Cowes/Pompey and Fishbourne
 

Chris125

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Is there any council plan to redevelop the fields south of Ryde, north of Smallbrook Lane?

I think there are plans and a large housing development, 'Pennyfeathers' has permission further south (though it's made less progress than Br***t) but nowhere obviously suitable nor would it really make sense - there's road access at Sandown and vehicles can and have been craned into St Johns when necessary.

If that bridge is an issue, surely it would not be beyond the local authority to consider rebuilding it, or perhaps even close and demolish it given that there is an alternative road quite close to the south?

The bridge is just one of many issues, you'd still have a very tight tunnel and clearances under Smallbrook Lane aren't generous either.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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I think there are plans and a large housing development, 'Pennyfeathers' has permission further south (though it's made less progress than Br***t) but nowhere obviously suitable nor would it really make sense - there's road access at Sandown and vehicles can and have been craned into St Johns when necessary.

To be realistic, you have to ask how many of these new residents of the projected housing development will have a car, if not two or three (remember the LV car advert for "multi-car cover") and with children of school-age who will add to the existing "car run" and will take the trouble to even consider the use of the railway.
 

Meerkat

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If they were commuting on the ferry then getting the train might still be easier than driving through Ryde and trying to find somewhere to park.
I was thinking you could build a smaller but up to date combined train maintenance, infrastructure depot, and operations centre there funded by selling St Johns and Sandown.
However a report linked earlier said Sandown had bad ground pollution, and St Johns is presumably worse so sale proceeds are going to be minimal (or negative!). Also I realised that low loaders would either have to go a long way round or through the middle of Ryde.....
 

Chester1

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Is there any council plan to redevelop the fields south of Ryde, north of Smallbrook Lane?
Just wondering if there was a chance for a new purpose built depot with decent road access to make operation easier and allow the sale and redevelopment of the in town sites at St Johns and Sandown.
If there was road access it might also make sense to move Smallbrook Junction there to be a P&R for the ferry.

There is half decent chance that Smallbrook Junction will be closed in the next few years. IWSR has made extending to Ryde St John's part of its future plans, which removes the point of the station. It would mean less infrastructure for SWR and NR to look after and probably higher usage of both railways. IWSR would take one track and platforms 1 and 2. A solution for disabled access to platform 3 would need to be found. Maybe turning 1 and 2 into bay platforms and removing the footbridge?
 

A0wen

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There is half decent chance that Smallbrook Junction will be closed in the next few years. IWSR has made extending to Ryde St John's part of its future plans, which removes the point of the station. It would mean less infrastructure for SWR and NR to look after and probably higher usage of both railways. IWSR would take one track and platforms 1 and 2. A solution for disabled access to platform 3 would need to be found. Maybe turning 1 and 2 into bay platforms and removing the footbridge?

The bigger problem will be running a heritage line in close proximity to 750v 3rd rail if that's staying. Everywhere else heritage lines come even close to 3rd rail they are well separated - e.g. Alton, East Grinstead, Epping & Ongar railway. I think if the Island Line were going battery then it wouldn't be a problem - as there are already stretches where heritage and national networks run side by side e.g. Eridge, Paignton, but the H&S risks around 3rd rail in proximity to heritage operation are significant.
 

MarkyT

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There is half decent chance that Smallbrook Junction will be closed in the next few years. IWSR has made extending to Ryde St John's part of its future plans, which removes the point of the station. It would mean less infrastructure for SWR and NR to look after and probably higher usage of both railways. IWSR would take one track and platforms 1 and 2. A solution for disabled access to platform 3 would need to be found. Maybe turning 1 and 2 into bay platforms and removing the footbridge?
It would be a missed opportunity if just as major housing development is planned to materialise surrounding the Smallbrook Junction site that the station there should close completely. Accepting that the current station doesn't have any external access, which would be difficult to provide affordably as well, and that if they extend to St Johns the steam railway doesn't need a station in the area, it would probably be simplest if a short replacement Island Line platform was located at the same site but on the east side of the running line, so a level pedestrian access could be created more easily to the adjacent local road network and proposed development, as the station would no longer be rail-locked in the 'V' between the two railways.
 

MarkyT

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The bigger problem will be running a heritage line in close proximity to 750v 3rd rail if that's staying. Everywhere else heritage lines come even close to 3rd rail they are well separated - e.g. Alton, East Grinstead, Epping & Ongar railway. I think if the Island Line were going battery then it wouldn't be a problem - as there are already stretches where heritage and national networks run side by side e.g. Eridge, Paignton, but the H&S risks around 3rd rail in proximity to heritage operation are significant.
One way of minimising this risk would be to ensure the 3rd rail is on the east side of the shared part of the formation, i.e the outside of the double track furthest away from the steam trains. Alternatively, if the trains had some moderate battery storage on board this section could be made 3rd rail free in a discontinuous configuration. The 3rd rail through the section might also be separately switchable with a signalling interlock so a steam train could only be run through when the traction rail is isolated. I think the mooted steam railway station facility at St Johns in particular needs to be as segregated as possible, which favours a dedicated new fenced off site in the yard on the west side rather than attempting to use one or more of the platforms in the existing station.
 

Meerkat

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I am not sure the island platform is wide enough for a lift etc. Using platform 1 only would be the best layout for Island Line.
The steam railway can build something new in the yard, maybe using the island platform’s canopy.
 
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Is there any council plan to redevelop the fields south of Ryde, north of Smallbrook Lane?
Just wondering if there was a chance for a new purpose built depot with decent road access to make operation easier and allow the sale and redevelopment of the in town sites at St Johns and Sandown.
If there was road access it might also make sense to move Smallbrook Junction there to be a P&R for the ferry.

Pennyfeathers will be the estate name.

The guy who owns busy bees garden center owned it but it was green belt.
He wanted to upgrade the garden center so it was changed to brown belt for the development
When it was brown belt they all of a sudden came up with the idea that the land is rip for development and as if by magic there was a plan to build pennyfeathers.
Which is going to be a total disaster looking at the plans because the whole of Westridge cross is a traffic planners nightmare on the best of days.

There is no plan for a traincare depot in those plans, but a new station at Smallbrook stadium due to developments there.

Does anyone have an annual ferry percentage figure of ferry usage in terms of both car and HGV transit of the Wightlink ferry service from Portsmouth to Fishbourne, in comparison to those ferries who use other island ports. Every time I used travelled to the Isle of Wight to the Fishbourne ferry terminal, there seemed quite a number of HGV using these ferries.

Call Redfunnel and Wightlink, they will come up with something.
I would say its about 20% commercial to 80% private per, then the night ferry is HazChem so mostly freight
 

Rick1984

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I think a basic glass lift from the bridge on St Johns Hill should fit.

You wouldn't want to reduce the Island Line to one platform, as if you go to trains every 20 minutes I imagine they would pass here
 

Meerkat

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How would you fit in a lift and stairs? Looks very narrow to me.
Is there any real likelihood of needing to go to 3tph? It only happens if the ferries do that, and what would trigger that volume of extra demand? I would have thought the bigger ferries and longer trains could cope with any feasible demand increase - it’s not that big an island!
 

MarkyT

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I think a basic glass lift from the bridge on St Johns Hill should fit.

You wouldn't want to reduce the Island Line to one platform, as if you go to trains every 20 minutes I imagine they would pass here

Might be easier to put in a lift or ramp in if they get rid of the 3rd track under the bridge against the east face of the island, although that siding is useful for stock stabling and could be particularly useful during the changeover period when there'll be a lot of extra stock to cope with.
 

Mark J

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Will the life expired wooden sleepers and bullhead track be replaced along the entire 8 mile length?
 
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