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TfW Class 170's

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anamyd

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Does anyone know when the rest of the units will start to transfer...?
 

Jacob Didcote

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Seeing 170s in Alstone CS is gonna be weird. I think TfW will definitely benefit from these.Yes everyone loves a pacer and i'm gonna be sad when they go lol but all good things have to come to an end:lol::frown:
 

PHILIPE

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Seeing 170s in Alstone CS is gonna be weird. I think TfW will definitely benefit from these.Yes everyone loves a pacer and i'm gonna be sad when they go lol but all good things have to come to an end:lol::frown:

They will be replacing several classes as all classes of TFW's fleet work to Cheltenham
 

anamyd

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Seeing 170s in Alstone CS is gonna be weird. I think TfW will definitely benefit from these.Yes everyone loves a pacer and i'm gonna be sad when they go lol but all good things have to come to an end:lol::frown:
Alstone...? If you mean Alstom, that's in Chester and is the 175 depot. The 170s are based at Cardiff Canton
 

Skip 10

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The low linespeed is not ideal. The toilets plonked in the passenger saloon, draughts from the exterior doors and provision of large amounts of standing room isn't great for a long-distance route like the HOWL, particularly one that is marketed as for leisure travel (as a scenic route).

Why would the layout no be great for the HoW? Large windows for the view, table seats and the added benefits of a more spacious toilet, aircon and electrical points from my experience would make them more than suitable. As for draughty doors........ 150/2 certainly aren't none draughty.
 

anamyd

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Why would the layout no be great for the HoW? Large windows for the view, table seats and the added benefits of a more spacious toilet, aircon and electrical points from my experience would make them more than suitable. As for draughty doors........ 150/2 certainly aren't none draughty.
what view...? overgrown vegetation...?
 

sd0733

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what view...? overgrown vegetation...?
I was thinking the same the other day on there. Not been down for years and for a fair chunk of the journey all you can see is trees. For what's marketed as a scenic route they'll be pushing the Trades description rules before long!
 

craigybagel

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Why would the layout no be great for the HoW? Large windows for the view, table seats and the added benefits of a more spacious toilet, aircon and electrical points from my experience would make them more than suitable. As for draughty doors........ 150/2 certainly aren't none draughty.

He has a strange aversion to journeys of longer than 20 minutes on trains with ⅓ ⅔ doors. The 170s will be a great improvement for the HOWL which I'm sure all the regular users will appreciate.

what view...? overgrown vegetation...?

I was thinking the same the other day on there. Not been down for years and for a fair chunk of the journey all you can see is trees. For what's marketed as a scenic route they'll be pushing the Trades description rules before long!

It does struggle a bit in places in summer but it's lovely in winter. I can't speak for the southern end but the climb up from Knighton over Knucklas viaduct and then the big climb up to Llangynlo is stunning. I've just lost it off my route card but I'm hoping that's only temporary, I loved working that line year round.
 

Rhydgaled

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Why would the layout no be great for the HoW? Large windows for the view, table seats and the added benefits of a more spacious toilet, aircon and electrical points from my experience would make them more than suitable. As for draughty doors........ 150/2 certainly aren't none draughty.
Don't get me wrong, a 170 would be a massive improvement over a class 150, but both fall short of the quality standards I believe should be applied to rolling stock for such routes. These include:
  • internal doors seperating the vestibles from the saloons, to significantly reduce draughts
  • toilets leading off said vestibles, rather than directly off the passenger saloon
  • maximised space for legroom, well-padded seats etc. (ie. not sacrificing space for standing room)
The ideal unit for the HOWL would probably be something similar to a class 156 but air-conditioned with better legroom and a second toilet to reduce the risk of non-availability of toilets due to CET tanks being full. Sadly, no such thing exists. The nearest existing design to that is probably a 2-car class 175.

what view...? overgrown vegetation...?
I was thinking the same the other day on there. Not been down for years and for a fair chunk of the journey all you can see is trees. For what's marketed as a scenic route they'll be pushing the Trades description rules before long!
I've been on the line only once, quite a few years ago, and have a similar memory of the journey (it was also no fun having no legroom).

He has a strange aversion to journeys of longer than 20 minutes on trains with ⅓ ⅔ doors. The 170s will be a great improvement for the HOWL which I'm sure all the regular users will appreciate.
I have an aversion to trains with ⅓ ⅔ doors yes, but what makes that aversion 'strange'? And it's not "journeys of longer than 20 minutes", it's rather more complicated than that. A large part of it is whether I think expecting passengers to stand (at peak times) is reasonable on the service (meaning there must be stops very close together) and another factor is what other services share the route. ⅓ ⅔ doors on the ValleyLines make sense (even though it's an hour into Cardiff from the heads of the valleys), but they do reduce the quality and so should be avoided where there is a possibility of long-distance passengers using the service and/or no need for them.
 

Neptune

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I don’t see a huge difference with a 170 and units with end doors regarding drafts. A 170’s external doors close after a few seconds of non activity whereas a 153 has no internal doors (unless they are still fitted to the Welsh units) and external doors which don’t automatically shut thus creating a draft. On a 158 or 175 there will still be a draft as the external doors are open and once someone enters the saloon the internal doors take around the same amount of time as a 170’s to close. I work on all these unit types (except 175) and find the 170 the best of all worlds. Comfy enough for longer distance runs with ample tables, luggage space etc but still useful in commuter times when the extra vestibule space swallows up the hoards and much quicker than end door stock.

If they were introduced on the S&C I’m sure the punters would much prefer them to the 158’s especially as the refurbished units have massively reduced luggage space and uncomfortable seats.
 

anamyd

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does anyone know when the third 170 transfers...? they're supposed to be one a week aren't they...?
 

Envoy

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It looks to me that the CAF trains that TfW have ordered for their long distance routes are going to be a similar layout to the 170’s. Surely, this is going to be a downgrade from the 175's?
I note that Trans Pennine Express have been using trains with doors at thirds for their long distance services in the north. Only now here they getting proper long distance Inter City Class 800’s from Hitachi.http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...ering-on-dmus-for-wales-and-borders-franchise

Chief executive of Transport for Wales Rail Services Kevin Thomas said that the new trains “will transform the passenger experience” and attract new customers to the railway by making it more accessible.

He added: “We are here to deliver Welsh Government’s vision of a high-quality, safe, and accessible transport network that the people of Wales are proud of.”
 

anamyd

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Not sure entirely when but 208 has now been unbranded so it's can't be far away...
thanks for the info :) if and when anyone finds the schedule for 170208's delivery please let me know!
 

craigybagel

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Don't get me wrong, a 170 would be a massive improvement over a class 150, but both fall short of the quality standards I believe should be applied to rolling stock for such routes. These include:
  • internal doors seperating the vestibles from the saloons, to significantly reduce draughts
  • toilets leading off said vestibles, rather than directly off the passenger saloon
  • maximised space for legroom, well-padded seats etc. (ie. not sacrificing space for standing room)
The ideal unit for the HOWL would probably be something similar to a class 156 but air-conditioned with better legroom and a second toilet to reduce the risk of non-availability of toilets due to CET tanks being full. Sadly, no such thing exists. The nearest existing design to that is probably a 2-car class 175.

I've been on the line only once, quite a few years ago, and have a similar memory of the journey (it was also no fun having no legroom).

I have an aversion to trains with ⅓ ⅔ doors yes, but what makes that aversion 'strange'? And it's not "journeys of longer than 20 minutes", it's rather more complicated than that. A large part of it is whether I think expecting passengers to stand (at peak times) is reasonable on the service (meaning there must be stops very close together) and another factor is what other services share the route. ⅓ ⅔ doors on the ValleyLines make sense (even though it's an hour into Cardiff from the heads of the valleys), but they do reduce the quality and so should be avoided where there is a possibility of long-distance passengers using the service and/or no need for them.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but going on previous posts your opinion seemed to be based on one single journey - and it seems strange to me that you mage such a large issue of it when 170s (and indeed 185s, 350s and other modern, comfortable units with ⅓ ⅔ doors) have been around for years without any kind of uproar from the general public. Unless you're standing besides the doors (and rest assured, passenger numbers on the HOWL mean that won't be an issue) as far as most people are concerned there is nothing wrong with the door layout.

170s will be a massive game changer on these lines, and I'd be amazed if any of the regular passengers find reason to complain about them.
 

43096

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The ideal unit for the HOWL would probably be something similar to a class 156 but air-conditioned with better legroom and a second toilet to reduce the risk of non-availability of toilets due to CET tanks being full. Sadly, no such thing exists. The nearest existing design to that is probably a 2-car class 175.
Isn't the 175 exactly what you described? Even built in the same factory as the 156s!
 
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