Long distance driving

bramling · 19 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Mod - split from here.

I know not everyone thinks the same way (there are enough climbers who drive overnight to Italy from the UK, which is just downright dangerous and makes a great case for tachographs on cars) but personally I have Scotland from the SE in the "too far to drive in one go" bracket and would therefore only consider rail or air (or coach if I was feeling particularly cheap). I'd only drive with a stopover.

Even sharing driving it's too far, you need a decent break away from the vehicle when driving that far.

I’m happy to do London to Scotland in one hit. Personally providing the journey is decent I don’t find this in the least bit tiring. On a few occasions I’ve done Berwick to London without physically stopping (albeit coming very close at one of the Bedfordshire roundabouts!).

Planning and having a comfortable car is the key. I actually find it more tiring stopping sometimes, as this simply extends the journey. It probably helps too that I tend to drive with at least one window down, sometimes complemented by heating on in cold weather.

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Cowley · 19 Sep 2019

bramling said:
I’m happy to do London to Scotland in one hit. Personally providing the journey is decent I don’t find this in the least bit tiring. On a few occasions I’ve done Berwick to London without physically stopping (albeit coming very close at one of the Bedfordshire roundabouts!).

Planning and having a comfortable car is the key. I actually find it more tiring stopping sometimes, as this simply extends the journey. It probably helps too that I tend to drive with at least one window down, sometimes complemented by heating on in cold weather.

Funnily enough I find it quite difficult doing long journeys in our car, yet I’ll happily cover 200+ miles in one hit in the van because I find it more relaxing being able to see much further ahead in the traffic, and also sitting more upright.

bramling · 20 Sep 2019

Cowley said:
Funnily enough I find it quite difficult doing long journeys in our car, yet I’ll happily cover 200+ miles in one hit in the van because I find it more relaxing being able to see much further ahead in the traffic, and also sitting more upright.

I like the better view in a van, but when I did London to Berwick it did begin to get quite uncomfortable from about North Yorkshire onwards. The only reason I didn’t stop was because at the time there was ice, snow and slush off the main road and I didn’t want avoidably end up on that.

But for shorter runs I’d agree van driving is quite pleasant. Like you say the upright seating position is nice in moderation, and one generally doesn’t get messed around by others quite so much (or if you do it’s less noticeable). I also find it nice to climb up into a van rather than drop down into a car - although I’d never have an SUV/4x4 over a saloon car.

As has been alluded to elsewhere, if people can quite happily drive suburban trains for several hours at a stretch performing up to a couple of hundred station stops, then a few hours in a car shouldn’t be a problem. Driving trains is much less hassle though - thanks to being effectively on a private road on which amateurs aren’t allowed!

richw · 20 Sep 2019

Long distance driving is as tiring as the car your doing it in.

My 2.0 automatic BMW I can drive 100s of miles and still be refreshed because it takes so little effort, minimal effort is needed to work the car.
My 1.0 VW is tiring to drive 100 miles because it needs so much work and effort to drive it due to lack of power it struggles on hills etc, so I have to intervene with more power, gear changes etc.

thejuggler · 20 Sep 2019

No doubt it is down to the car. I had a Jaguar 10 years ago and it was by far the best I have had for long distance. 300 miles not a problem and I knew I could do 300 more. Very comfy seats and it wafted over the road surface.

Just a pity the rest of the car was a pile of junk and I only owned it 18 months!

Meerkat · 20 Sep 2019

bramling said:
Yes it’s the perfect application for it, or at least it is when the road isn’t full of prats in front who can’t keep their speed constant. <sigh>

Don’t get me started! The outside lane in roadworks should be reserved for those with cruise control!
At least we can use the outside lane. The poor lorry drivers get stuck in the middle lane behind people doing less than 50 but just won’t move over. One time the lorry was literally one foot behind the car flashing his lights and the muppet still wasn’t moving into the empty first lane.

PeterC · 20 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
Don’t get me started! The outside lane in roadworks should be reserved for those with cruise control!
At least we can use the outside lane. The poor lorry drivers get stuck in the middle lane behind people doing less than 50 but just won’t move over. One time the lorry was literally one foot behind the car flashing his lights and the muppet still wasn’t moving into the empty first lane.

The ones who don't understand that their speedos over read and are being "virtuous" by doing a steady indicated 50. I do remember one occasion however where I had the cruise set 10mph BELOW the speed limit on the M1 at night and could still have undertaken three cars hogging the middle lane.

As my car doesn't have the adaptive element I only use cruise on a fairly empty road but I find that using the limiter is better for fuel consumption anyway.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2019

PeterC said:
The ones who don't understand that their speedos over read and are being "virtuous" by doing a steady 50

That doesn't really make any difference to you - it is a limit, not a target, provided you are not causing an obstruction (and someone on a 2 or 3-lane road with a 50mph limit driving at 46mph is not in any way doing that).

However, nobody, regardless of their speed, should be driving in a lane on a multi-lane road with no vehicle either to their left or within their braking distance in the left lane ahead (and where pulling in wouldn't put you within the braking distance of the vehicle you just overtook).

This is where I often fall victim to this - I do apply recommended braking distances (e.g. on a motorway the "two second rule" or the two chevrons where provided), which most drivers seem not to, and often get someone "undertaking" me because the next vehicle in the left lane is not far enough ahead for me to safely pull back in, therefore I am staying out until I have overtaken both vehicles.

Meerkat · 20 Sep 2019

It’s generally fine in the average speed roadworks. Don’t you have up and down buttons to adjust the speed? They are usually enough unless there are real muppets involved.

Meerkat · 20 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
That doesn't really make any difference to you - it is a limit, not a target, provided you are not causing an obstruction (and someone on a 2 or 3-lane road with a 50mph limit driving at 46mph is not in any way doing that).

They do cause problems for lorries that aren’t allowed in the outside lane to overtake them.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
They do cause problems for lorries that aren’t allowed in the outside lane to overtake them.

Again, it is a limit, not a target. If someone is in the middle lane doing 46mph but they are passing someone doing 42mph (say), you wait for them to complete their manoeuvre safely.

The displaying of a given speed limit on a road does not entitle you to travel at that speed.

If there is a vehicle to their left travelling at a lower speed (or the same speed and there is no room to pull in), that is tough. Slow down and wait patiently for the road to become clear for you to safely increase your speed.

This is as bad in the "BMW lane" on the right hand side, to be honest. If I am in Lane 3 at 70mph overtaking two lorries in the lanes to the left, you wait for me to do so. You do not pull close up behind at speed, flashing lights and beeping your horn. I will simply ignore you until I have safely completed my manoeuvre and pulled back in at a correct distance from the lorry.

Meerkat · 20 Sep 2019

Nice concept, but the reality is that it produces much dangerous aggravation and bunching.
And the wait can be a long long wait if they are doing 46 and the car on the inside is doing 45.5
It’s a problem with strict enforcement of speed limits with average speed - people are unwilling to blip past so they can pull in quickly and clear the lane.

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
Nice concept, but the reality is that it produces much dangerous aggravation and bunching.
And the wait can be a long long wait if they are doing 46 and the car on the inside is doing 45.5
It’s a problem with strict enforcement of speed limits with average speed - people are unwilling to blip past so they can pull in quickly and clear the lane.

It is indeed a problem with such enforcement if you consider travelling at 45.5mph instead of 50mph that much of a problem. It makes barely any difference, though, and people who do have an issue with that really need to examine why they are getting so angry about a minute or two on their journey time and whether that is the right attitude to hold while carrying out a safety-critical task.

"Dangerous aggravation and bunching" is caused by drivers with the wrong attitude, and them adjusting their attitude will fix it straight away.

Again, you do not have a right to travel at the speed limit. It is a limit, not a target. It only specifies the speed that you must not exceed.

alex17595 · 20 Sep 2019

Meerkat said:
Three

Three fuel stops?! You driving a V8 and going the autobahn way?

My car only fits £35 in the tank and it's only a 1.5L mazda.

Went via France/Belgium/Luxembourg/Germany/France

HOOVER29 · 20 Sep 2019

Once drove from my house to Glasgow before turning left for a place called Kilbirnie to pick a work colleague up. Quick bacon butty & we set off for home.
Set off at 5am & arrived back home at 3pm.
625 miles in 10 hrs.
Never again.

PeterC · 20 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It is indeed a problem with such enforcement if you consider travelling at 45.5mph instead of 50mph that much of a problem. It makes barely any difference, though, and people who do have an issue with that really need to examine why they are getting so angry about a minute or two on their journey time and whether that is the right attitude to hold while carrying out a safety-critical task.

"Dangerous aggravation and bunching" is caused by drivers with the wrong attitude, and them adjusting their attitude will fix it straight away.

Again, you do not have a right to travel at the speed limit. It is a limit, not a target. It only specifies the speed that you must not exceed.

No problem in my nice nippy car but for a fully loaded artic where the driver has a timed delivery slot to meet it may be another matter. We were talking about roadworks rather than clear road as well.

bramling · 21 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The displaying of a given speed limit on a road does not entitle you to travel at that speed.

Whilst I agree with this to a point, likewise I think it is reasonable for people to attain the signed speed limit where it is safe and appropriate to do so.

Coming from a railway background where the speed limit *is* generally seen as a target speed, this makes life easier and safer for everyone. Certainly on the railway whilst there are 101 reasons why a driver might quite legitimately choose to do a lower speed, "I felt like doing X mph" isn't one of them, and would certainly lead to questions being asked on an assessment. This is one of the reasons why train driving is rather more pleasurable than car driving, one is driving on a private road with everyone on it trained and assessed to a rather higher standard.

Bletchleyite said:
This is as bad in the "BMW lane"

I think you're a bit behind the times with that. Nowadays if anything it's the "Audi lane"!

IME BMW drivers are nowadays comparatively placid, although perhaps vulnerable to certain incidents which I'd more put down to people being unused to rear-wheel-drive vehicles.

Ianno87 · 21 Sep 2019

bramling said:
Whilst I agree with this to a point, likewise I think it is reasonable for people to attain the signed speed limit where it is safe and appropriate to do so.

Coming from a railway background where the speed limit *is* generally seen as a target speed, this makes life easier and safer for everyone. Certainly on the railway whilst there are 101 reasons why a driver might quite legitimately choose to do a lower speed, "I felt like doing X mph" isn't one of them, and would certainly lead to questions being asked on an assessment. This is one of the reasons why train driving is rather more pleasurable than car driving, one is driving on a private road with everyone on it trained and assessed to a rather higher standard.

I think you're a bit behind the times with that. Nowadays if anything it's the "Audi lane"!

IME BMW drivers are nowadays comparatively placid, although perhaps vulnerable to certain incidents which I'd more put down to people being unused to rear-wheel-drive vehicles.

I think, like the railway, car drivers need to be educated that driving excessively slowly compared to the rest of the 'flow', is so wasteful of motorway capacity. Like when everybody else is doing 70 and there's someone in a Nissan Micra doing 45. If it's necessary for them to do that speed, you worry should they really be on a motorway, or even driving a car at all...

That and middle* lane hogging too.

*I've had cause to use the M25 twice recently, on which the general adherence lane discipline is abysmal. How people drive on it commute every day without going insance beats me.

headshot119 · 21 Sep 2019

bramling said:
Whilst I agree with this to a point, likewise I think it is reasonable for people to attain the signed speed limit where it is safe and appropriate to do so.
.

I get frustrated with people doing 30-40 in a 60, when there's good visibility and weather conditions. People driving like that shouldn't be on the road.

bramling · 21 Sep 2019

Ianno87 said:
I think, like the railway, car drivers need to be educated that driving excessively slowly compared to the rest of the 'flow', is so wasteful of motorway capacity. Like when everybody else is doing 70 and there's someone in a Nissan Micra doing 45. If it's necessary for them to do that speed, you worry should they really be on a motorway, or even driving a car at all...

That and middle* lane hogging too.

*I've had cause to use the M25 twice recently, on which the general adherence lane discipline is abysmal. How people drive on it commute every day without going insance beats me.

The one which gets me is that you get some doltz who chooses to drive at a slow speed, yet suddenly decide they *have* to move to the right to pass a lorry or such. No attempt at adjusting speed or choosing a suitable opportunity to change lanes seamlessly, just a sudden ill-judged move. It's obviously poorly planned as the indicator invariably comes on at the same time the vehicle starts moving to the right, rather than in advance.

My grandfather was terrible for this. He always had to have "his" speed everywhere. Normally this was infuriatingly slower than everyone else, but this didn't stop him doing 45 in 30 areas or going round blind bends on rural B-roads at 50 mph. I never ever got the logic behind his driving, probably because there wasn't one. Thankfully after a few prangs and now well into his 90s he's long since off the roads.

Your point about the M25 is spot on. I was on it last night coming back from west Wales (a 4-hour drive, so perhaps fits well with this thread, although on this occasion I did decide to do a brief stop in order to eat). Even at 2330 the lane discipline was shocking. The M4 wasn't much better approaching London. I'm glad I don't need to use the M25 regularly, although the A1(M) is pretty dire at times too, especially the Welwyn/Stevenage section and around Hatfield.

nlogax · 21 Sep 2019

A minimum speed limit of 50mph on motorways where there are no variable limits being enforced would be a sensible move.

Long-distance driving can be a joy especially when you're not in a major hurry to be somewhere and you start out extremely early in the morning with the mist and early light. It becomes less of a joy when other motorists join the fray and suddenly you're at the whims of a general lack of lane control and even more infuriatingly what seems to be a total absence of defensive driving skills amongst so many at a time when such skills are needed more than ever.

HOOVER29 · 22 Sep 2019

I’ve been driving for nearly 35 yrs & it still shocks me to see the standards of driving skills on the roads today. Ok I’m no ace behind the wheel & I've had 3 serious accidents, all of which were proven not my fault.
What is it with people who don’t like being overtaken?
They trundle along in the middle lane for mile after mile at 1 mph faster than the lorries they’re passing so you indicate to pass them. Then as you’re passing them they for no reason at all decide to have a drag race with you. This happened to me driving up from Devon on the M5 a few weeks ago. As for Audi’s being the king of the third lane I can definitely say that’s bullshoot.
The BMW 3 series driver hasn’t gone anywhere.
See a pile up in the outside lane & there will be one or two stuffed in there. The M42 around Birmingham is their territory especially during rush hour.

Lucan · 22 Sep 2019

Much comment so far about drivers going slower through M-way roadworks than the limit. My beef is about the ones who go through with a huge space in front of them. I have seen gaps of 100-200 yards in otherwise packed traffic and with miles-long jams approaching the works.

This fractions the road capacity past the works. They may actually be doing the speed limit, but have been super-slow at getting up to speed when they got moving from the jam. Is their attitude that the road is slowed anyway so there is no point in getting on with it?

MotCO · 22 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
This is where I often fall victim to this - I do apply recommended braking distances (e.g. on a motorway the "two second rule" or the two chevrons where provided), which most drivers seem not to, and often get someone "undertaking" me because the next vehicle in the left lane is not far enough ahead for me to safely pull back in, therefore I am staying out until I have overtaken both vehicles.

I try to keep to the 2 second rule, but find that if I leave this space, someone will undetake me and pull in, so I need to drop further back. This is particularly the case on the two lane section of the M11 north of Stanstead.

(I'm in the outside lane in a line waiting to overtake slower vehicles - I'm not hogging the fast lane (and certainly not in a BMW or Audi!).

Edit for spelling correction

Bantamzen · 22 Sep 2019

Crikey, this thread makes me glad I don't drive. People driving for way too long whilst getting angry at other drivers not adhering to their standards is a recipe for disaster!

MotCO · 22 Sep 2019

Ianno87 said:
I've had cause to use the M25 twice recently, on which the general adherence lane discipline is abysmal. How people drive on it commute every day without going insance beats me.

I don't find lane discipline on the M25 to be too bad. I use it in the rush hour (J4 - J8), and during term times, lane discipline is not too bad. Holiday time (with non-regular drivers) is a diferent matter...

Two things annoy me. The number of drivers who do not use their indicators, particularly to change lane, but also on roundabouts - the lack of indication stops vehicles knowing if it is safe to join the roundabout, adding to delays. And when I'm overtaking a vehicle, for that vehicle to suddenly speed up - they have probably been texting and not paying attention to the road.

And whilst on my soapbox :lol:

, what really annoys me is a lorry going at 52 mph trying to overtake a lorry doing 51.5 mph on a two lane motorway. Why doesn't the overtaken lorry ease off a bit to let the other lorry safely overtake.

(Rant over!)

richw · 22 Sep 2019

MotCO said:
Why doesn't the overtaken lorry ease off a bit to let the other lorry safely overtake.

When I did my PCV training and test we were taught to do this! Ease off a little to let the not much faster vehicle get past

Cowley · 22 Sep 2019

richw said:
When I did my PCV training and test we were taught to do this! Ease off a little to let the not much faster vehicle get past

The truck drivers that I chuckle about are the ones doing 56 mph and after ten minutes of overtaking another truck doing 55.9 mph start to hit a slight gradient and have to slowly concede defeat.
These days of course a lot of trucks can maintain a fairly steady speed uphill. When I started driving trucks used to rush the hills and would quite often pass you at 70 in the dips before you passed them again near the top of the hill getting slower and slower.

Ianno87 · 22 Sep 2019

Bantamzen said:
Crikey, this thread makes me glad I don't drive. People driving for way too long whilst getting angry at other drivers not adhering to their standards is a recipe for disaster!

1) Personally I don't get angry (it can be bloody hard not to though) - that is a recipe for "red mist" and a nasty accident

2) Don't know what you mean by "their standards". The correct behaviour is clearly laid down in the Highway Code. Though I suspect many drivers don't give this more than a cursory read in order to pass their test. If everyone follows the same rules and standards, that makes behaviour of other drivers predicatable, consistent, less stressful and less likely to lead to accidents. For example, I've nearly sideswiped drivers who have been undertaking me as I've pulled back in - only my alertness and checking mirrors prevented an accident.

3) I'd jack in owning a car tomorrow if it weren't for getting my family around. Whilst I don't claim to be a perfect driver myself (I've had cloddish moments like everybody), you're only ever one muppet driver away from an accident. For this reason I do long distance drives my exception, not the norm.

4) My longest ever drive without a rest stop is Cambridge to Bolton non-stop (200 miles, 3 and a quarter hours), but only because I felt 'pumped' the whole way (and the kids were quiet/asleep). If they kick up, or I feel tiredness setting in or concentration waning, I will stop.

Ianno87 · 22 Sep 2019

richw said:
When I did my PCV training and test we were taught to do this! Ease off a little to let the not much faster vehicle get past

Is there ever commercial pressure from some outfits not to ease of to meet delivery times or preserve fuel economy?

Long distance driving

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