First Greater Glasgow

Volvodart · 20 Sep 2019

The 14th is the school holiday timetables.

RailUK Forums

AndrewTaylor95 · 20 Sep 2019

Buses that went south from Blantyre were 37181/182 both 07 plate B7TL's, 53 plate ex FSY are still in Blantyre, ex Livi E400MMC's have replaced the two 07 plates

TheGrandWazoo · 20 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
Of course only buses going through the city need to comply... routes like the 16, 46, 94 etc, So the only routes that would need to be cut are the main Overground routes sadly.. The 34 has brand new stock and doesn't even go anywhere near the City centre. 90 Also has newer stock and again does not enter the LEZ zone. So why is First wasting it money here?

Are they wasting their money? They might be upgrading services not serving the LEZ area (but needing investment) safe in the knowledge that there will be further new fleet in subsequent batches to meet the steps in the requirements.

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
Are they wasting their money? They might be upgrading services not serving the LEZ area (but needing investment) safe in the knowledge that there will be further new fleet in subsequent batches to meet the steps in the requirements.

Wouldn't call it a waste at all tbh. The key thing to notice is that a lot of the services outside the LEZ are also ones that don't always do well for passenger numbers so giving them new buses was a way to try and draw new customers in. It's definitely worked with the likes of the 241 and 254 from when I've seen it. Also seen a few times on here that they're 2 big batches of new buses and a few fleet transfers away from being fully covered for the LEZ. Not bad for a company up for sale

TheGrandWazoo · 20 Sep 2019

PaulMc7 said:
Wouldn't call it a waste at all tbh. The key thing to notice is that a lot of the services outside the LEZ are also ones that don't always do well for passenger numbers so giving them new buses was a way to try and draw new customers in. It's definitely worked with the likes of the 241 and 254 from when I've seen it. Also seen a few times on here that they're 2 big batches of new buses and a few fleet transfers away from being fully covered for the LEZ. Not bad for a company up for sale

I think we’re in violent agreement

It’s 40% of journeys to be Euro vi by Dec 2019 and in regular steps to full compliance by 2022. No need to do everything now and there are non LEZ services that needed investment.

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
I think we’re in violent agreement

It’s 40% of journeys to be Euro vi by Dec 2019 and in regular steps to full compliance by 2022. No need to do everything now and there are non LEZ services that needed investment.

There's also the facts we know there will be more cuts and could be sold any minute too so yeah it might not even be them that need to invest in time for it

TheGrandWazoo · 20 Sep 2019

PaulMc7 said:
There's also the facts we know there will be more cuts and could be sold any minute too so yeah it might not even be them that need to invest in time for it

Also that in the last 11 months, Glasgow has had c170 new vehicles and there are other OpCos who also need investment to meet their own LEZ/CAZ requirements OR to manage their own fleet replacement.

Bristol, Leicester and Wales are all strong, profitable businesses and in the same period received no new vehicles (though Bath had just received 9 new Solos). The love (and cash) has to be spread around.

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
Also that in the last 11 months, Glasgow has had c170 new vehicles and there are other OpCos who also need investment to meet their own LEZ/CAZ requirements OR to manage their own fleet replacement.

Bristol, Leicester and Wales are all strong, profitable businesses and in the same period received no new vehicles (though Bath had just received 9 new Solos). The love (and cash) has to be spread around.

Yeah definitely. It's new investment everywhere that's gonna keep them strong not just one operation despite the LEZ challenge

JumpinTrainz · 20 Sep 2019

First Glasgow has suffered neglect for a company which dominates such a large city (and beyond). I honestly think they should cut their loses with FSE and concentrate on their biggest capital. By that I mean Glasgow and even Aberdeen (another area which First agave come to dominate but have neglected).

Glasgow still requires a lot of investment. Yes they are meeting requirements but there are still very old, tatty buses on main stream services. By that I am pointing to ex-London tridents, B7TLs and B7RLEs. I think they need to prioritise areas they excel in rather than trying to profit from areas that are a losing battle (ie FSE).

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

JumpinTrainz said:
First Glasgow has suffered neglect for a company which dominates such a large city (and beyond). I honestly think they should cut their loses with FSE and concentrate on their biggest capital. By that I mean Glasgow and even Aberdeen (another area which First agave come to dominate but have neglected).

Glasgow still requires a lot of investment. Yes they are meeting requirements but there are still very old, tatty buses on main stream services. By that I am pointing to ex-London tridents, B7TLs and B7RLEs. I think they need to prioritise areas they excel in rather than trying to profit from areas that are a losing battle (ie FSE).

The 6A I was on yesterday was a great example of this. 02 plate decker that was the least healthy-sounding thing ever not to mention there's a few older single deckers that leak water through the second it's raining

JumpinTrainz · 20 Sep 2019

PaulMc7 said:
The 6A I was on yesterday was a great example of this. 02 plate decker that was the least healthy-sounding thing ever not to mention there's a few older single deckers that leak water through the second it's raining

Yet people on here argue that it’s normal and defend First to the hill. First have disgraced themselves in many aspects and despite those who stick up for them there is no argument when things like this happen. For a major operator like First, water should not be leaking through roofs, seats should not be thread bare. It’s not like prices are low - buses are expensive!

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

JumpinTrainz said:
Yet people on here argue that it’s normal and defend First to the hill. First have disgraced themselves in many aspects and despite those who stick up for them there is no argument when things like this happen. For a major operator like First, water should not be leaking through roofs, seats should not be thread bare. It’s not like prices are low - buses are expensive!

Even the seats on the likes of the E300s etc and more recent buses aren't great tbh. The main reason First have been so profitable in Glasgow is because despite doing a lot right, there's a lot wrong and nobody else has been strong enough to capitalise on it

CM · 20 Sep 2019

JumpinTrainz said:
First Glasgow has suffered neglect for a company which dominates such a large city (and beyond). I honestly think they should cut their loses with FSE and concentrate on their biggest capital. By that I mean Glasgow and even Aberdeen (another area which First agave come to dominate but have neglected).

Glasgow still requires a lot of investment. Yes they are meeting requirements but there are still very old, tatty buses on main stream services. By that I am pointing to ex-London tridents, B7TLs and B7RLEs. I think they need to prioritise areas they excel in rather than trying to profit from areas that are a losing battle (ie FSE).

This is what happens when a private operator had a monopoly in an area. They abuse it and try and milk it for as much money as they can. I still remember when McKindless stopped operating and literally within a few weeks, First Glasgow put the fares up. Coincidence, I think not...

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

Colin M said:
This is what happens when a private operator had a monopoly in an area. They abuse it and try and milk it for as much money as they can. I still remember when McKindless stopped operating and literally within a few weeks, First Glasgow put the fares up. Coincidence, I think not...

Yeah I remember that well. We've also had 3 price increases in 18 months here too although with the LEZ investment that was always coming. Don't think it would have went down as badly if services weren't cut too

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

The X1 cut will definitely be interesting tbh. Seen a good 30/40 people already say they're contacting their local MP etc regarding it. Won't be surprised to see way more do that too

Also doesn't help that the Twitter team are giving people the completely wrong info again regarding it too

smtglasgow · 20 Sep 2019

I can see First backing down and putting on a couple of peak X1s. I see that the SNP MSP and a local councillor have picked up on it. I think the problem for First is that a couple of well-used peak journeys aren’t enough for a bus to earn its keep. It’s a bit like McGills and the X23 – almost impossible to explain or justify to customers, but in strict business terms it makes sense. There’s also a response on their twitter that the new X2 is an *hourly* service to Robroyston (1 bus presumably). Maybe they shouldn’t have dropped the transforming travel strapline – they’re certainly doing that.

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

smtglasgow said:
I can see First backing down and putting on a couple of peak X1s. I see that the SNP MSP and a local councillor have picked up on it. I think the problem for First is that a couple of well-used peak journeys aren’t enough for a bus to earn its keep. It’s a bit like McGills and the X23 – almost impossible to explain or justify to customers, but in strict business terms it makes sense. There’s also a response on their twitter that the new X2 is an *hourly* service to Robroyston (1 bus presumably). Maybe they shouldn’t have dropped the transforming travel strapline – they’re certainly doing that.

Yeah I'm in agreement with you on that. I can't really see the X2 being used that much except at peaks too. Anytime I've got the 19A from the city centre when it's been busy most of the people are off it before Robroyston but then there's some from Royston and Provanmill who use it up to Robroyston. Also means people will need to use the 8 more which is worrying considering it goes off quite early and isn't consistently reliable

TheGrandWazoo · 20 Sep 2019

JumpinTrainz said:
First Glasgow has suffered neglect for a company which dominates such a large city (and beyond). I honestly think they should cut their loses with FSE and concentrate on their biggest capital. By that I mean Glasgow and even Aberdeen (another area which First agave come to dominate but have neglected).

Glasgow still requires a lot of investment. Yes they are meeting requirements but there are still very old, tatty buses on main stream services. By that I am pointing to ex-London tridents, B7TLs and B7RLEs. I think they need to prioritise areas they excel in rather than trying to profit from areas that are a losing battle (ie FSE).

Isn’t that what First are doing. 170 new vehicles in under a year with more doubtless to come? Nowhere aside from Leeds gets close to that.

Depends what you mean by cutting their losses? If it’s selling up... that is on the agenda. And if you close down places like FSE, Midland Bluebird and Aberdeen then there’s a load of exit costs and asset write downs so more losses! It’s not that straightforward.

They do need to invest and get rid of the aged deckers and tired Eclipses; Glasgow was ill served by the slew of ex London tat. However, they will have to improve the fleet to meet the targets and I’d anticipate another chunk of new fleet.

That’s not defending to the hill, or even the hilt, but just the reality of the situation.

TheGrandWazoo · 20 Sep 2019

Colin M said:
This is what happens when a private operator had a monopoly in an area. They abuse it and try and milk it for as much money as they can. I still remember when McKindless stopped operating and literally within a few weeks, First Glasgow put the fares up. Coincidence, I think not...

Of course it’s no coincidence. That is market forces as in any deregulated market.

christopherrfc · 20 Sep 2019

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....hamilton-express-bus-route-axed-1-5008239/amp

overthewater · 20 Sep 2019

YOU have to quote it like the forum rules say: If people kept to this rule we might have all seen that press release for ALD

Hog wash the company has cut every single conor with this bus, yet Motherwell bus is just as busy as ever and get more trains.

What it really is saying is X2 will be hourly, and 19 is replacing 38s in Easterhouse. One hope X74 will add in more journeys

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-glasgow-hamilton-express-bus-route-axed-1-5008239

First Glasgow is to axe an express bus service into Glasgow because of traffic congestion and competition from ScotRail.
The X1 commuter link from Hamilton will end on 27 October, the operator confirmed to The Scotsman.
The move angered some passengers.
Annual season ticket holder Ross Stirling tweeted: "The bus is constantly busy. Particularly for people commuting for office hours. You are changing people's commute from a 45min/1hr to a nearly 2 hour commute
"I buy a yearly pass on the provision of using the x1 express. I do not want to spend that much money if there is no express replacement."

But First Glasgow commercial director Graeme Macfarlan said: “The Service X1 is a route that has been in decline for a number of years in terms of passenger numbers, despite a number of efforts to make the route attractive to service users.

“This is due to a number of factors such as increased congestion on the M74 which slows down journey times quite dramatically and increasing competition from the subsidised local rail network in Hamilton connecting to Glasgow.

“These have led to an overall decline in bus patronage.
“The hope with the service was that we may in time see a boost to passenger numbers.

“Unfortunately, this has not transpired and in fact passenger levels have now fallen to a level that makes the route unsustainable on a commercial basis.

“Therefore, in our latest network changes, having exhausted all efforts to boost the service, we have now taken the difficult decision to cease the service from operation.

“However, we have introduced the new 225 service which will cover part of the route between Little Earnock and Hamilton Palace Retail Park.

“Customers can also still continue to catch connections to Glasgow via our 267 and 255 services that serve the same area.”

First is also replacing its 19A service between Glasgow and Robroyston with a “faster and more direct” new X2 service via the M80 & M8, operating hourly between Monday and Saturday.

The operator said it was also increasing the frequency of its 19 service between Easterhouse and Glasgow from every 30 to 20 minutes due to an increased demand.

However, it is withdrawing its service 38/A/B/C/E between Glasgow Fort and Easterhouse due to low patronage.

PaulMc7 · 20 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
YOU have to quote it like the forum rules say: If people kept to this rule we might have all seen that press release for ALD

Hog wash the company has cut every single connor with this bus, yet Motherwell bus is just as busy as ever and get more trains. What it really is saying is X2 will be hourly, and 19 is replacing 38s in Easterhouse

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-glasgow-hamilton-express-bus-route-axed-1-5008239

I can understand the 19 and 38 change tbh. The interesting one is that the X2 isn't running Sundays. The first 8A towards Riddrie doesn't get to Robroyston til 11:30 approx and doesn't go the other way til just before 12. Surely the 19 will need to be more than 1 an hour on a Sunday now too. Could argue that the X11 is a complete let down of a service too given the fact they go off even earlier towards Glasgow than the X1 currently does. First really making a big mistake with the X1. The other buses go into Glasgow but they forget that's only from the bus station in Hamilton and take double the time the X1 does. Does anyone think SPT will step in and subsidise a peak X1 service if enough people demand it? There are multiple posts on Hamilton-based Facebook groups clearly indicating just how many people use it at peak times for work, college, uni etc

On another subject too, has a new registration for the 6/6A went through yet? Seen the current one being cancelled earlier in the week but nothing new for it as of yet

Bus Lightyear · 20 Sep 2019

JumpinTrainz said:
First Glasgow has suffered neglect for a company which dominates such a large city (and beyond). I honestly think they should cut their loses with FSE and concentrate on their biggest capital. By that I mean Glasgow and even Aberdeen (another area which First agave come to dominate but have neglected).

That would cost an absolute fortune on redundancies and they would have to move on their fleet very quickly. They would also have to sell their depots. None of what you're suggesting is feasible in the short term so they would be better off selling the business instead of in your words cutting their losses.

JumpinTrainz said:
Glasgow still requires a lot of investment. Yes they are meeting requirements but there are still very old, tatty buses on main stream services. By that I am pointing to ex-London tridents, B7TLs and B7RLEs. I think they need to prioritise areas they excel in rather than trying to profit from areas that are a losing battle (ie FSE).

If you think some of today's fleet is bad you should've seen their predecessor companies who ran 20 year old buses in all day service.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tcd48...dB-dW76AF-mxDKuE-TFocgN-H6zzfG-286PiUy-QsQ4Lf
https://www.flickr.com/photos/peagr...u-265AD33-9XWJbL-BaBNyj-xGZ1DD-2bDnk2d-dEMdyU

JumpinTrainz said:
Yet people on here argue that it’s normal and defend First to the hill. First have disgraced themselves in many aspects and despite those who stick up for them there is no argument when things like this happen. For a major operator like First, water should not be leaking through roofs, seats should not be thread bare. It’s not like prices are low - buses are expensive!

Water leaking into the saloon could be a manufacturer fault,

PaulMc7 said:
The 6A I was on yesterday was a great example of this. 02 plate decker that was the least healthy-sounding thing ever not to mention there's a few older single deckers that leak water through the second it's raining

Seems like you had the pleasure of the only 02 plate in the whole FG fleet.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/71368...5Ukrpm-264cQv7-25BPn1n-25rgvr3-23sS7o6-EYJfFs

Gingerbus1991 · 20 Sep 2019

overthewater said:
YOU have to quote it like the forum rules say: If people kept to this rule we might have all seen that press release for ALD

Hog wash the company has cut every single conor with this bus, yet Motherwell bus is just as busy as ever and get more trains.

What it really is saying is X2 will be hourly, and 19 is replacing 38s in Easterhouse. One hope X74 will add in more journeys

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-glasgow-hamilton-express-bus-route-axed-1-5008239

So the 38 section from The Loch to The Fort will be removed?
Understandable considering the 60/60A covers that small section, but it's absolutely useless for anybody who wants The Lochs from Ruchazie or Garthamloch.

Is the x2 not similar to the previously withdrawn x81? Which coincidently was removed for what I recall being low usage at the time.

I certainly question FiGs statement of the x1 being unviable, it may not be the best performer but I can't help speculate that it was a bored meeting where the question was, Sacrifice the x1? or make it LEZ complaint? Concerned pax or not.

PaulMc7 · 21 Sep 2019

CraigonGLESGA said:
So the 38 section from The Loch to The Fort will be removed?
Understandable considering the 60/60A covers that small section, but it's absolutely useless for anybody who wants The Lochs from Ruchazie or Garthamloch.

Is the x2 not similar to the previously withdrawn x81? Which coincidently was removed for what I recall being low usage at the time.

I certainly question FiGs statement of the x1 being unviable, it may not be the best performer but I can't help speculate that it was a bored meeting where the question was, Sacrifice the x1? or make it LEZ complaint? Concerned pax or not.

The 38 change takes 5mins off of the route and that's it so it'll save 1 bus. The X2 is basically that X81 minus the Auchinairn section and that was the same as what's happening with the X1. It was extremely busy at peaks from experience yet not viable. I think the cut of the X1 will have a much bigger impact than the X81 cut though back then. It also now means Robroyston won't have a city centre bus on a Sunday as the X2 is only hourly Monday to Saturday. Wonder what time the X2 will start running at considering the First 19A currently is something like 4:57am. I can definitely agree with it being to do with a meeting. Seen a couple of Facebook comments from people who had contacted First recently as they planned to buy yearly tickets and at that point the X1 was 100% staying. Surprised the X4 is staying then as that's similar to the X1. Completely dead off peak but busy at peaks

Busman84 · 21 Sep 2019

Any rainwater I have seen (a number of buses) dripping into the saloons have usually been from poor window repair jobs. Either the window hopper seal or actual glass not fitted properly also resulting in constant rattling. The B7RLEs also have had water drip from the saloon heating vents onto seats. This is unacceptable plus far too many (more than half of the fleet) run around with no saloon heating either. Some buses that do have working heating run the full year with it on.

PaulMc7 · 21 Sep 2019

Busman84 said:
Any rainwater I have seen (a number of buses) dripping into the saloons have usually been from poor window repair jobs. Either the window hopper seal or actual glass not fitted properly also resulting in constant rattling. The B7RLEs also have had water drip from the saloon heating vents onto seats. This is unacceptable plus far too many (more than half of the fleet) run around with no saloon heating either. Some buses that do have working heating run the full year with it on.

With First's buses I've found recently that you either end up freezing or burning. There's no inbetween. As for the leaking it's been a mix of bad window repairs or from the ceiling of the bus. There's been times bus drivers have mentioned it to the depot and they won't even give them another bus from the depot

Gareth1980 · 21 Sep 2019

Has anyone got a complete list of which Depot operates which route?

Only one I can find still has Parkhead!

Who is most likely to run the new X2?

PaulMc7 · 21 Sep 2019

Gareth1980 said:
Has anyone got a complete list of which Depot operates which route?

Only one I can find still has Parkhead!

Who is most likely to run the new X2?

Not got a full list but I'm guessing it would make most sense for Caledonia depot to run the X2. Would be even more dead mileage if it was Scotstoun

Gingerbus1991 · 21 Sep 2019

Gareth1980 said:
Has anyone got a complete list of which Depot operates which route?

Only one I can find still has Parkhead!

There's not much depots to know about, and usually logically you can guess at least some of them.

1/1A - Dumbarton
2 - Scotstoun
3 - S
x4 - S
5 - Caledonia
6 - B & C maybe
7/7A - C
8 - C
9/9A - split C & S I think
10 - C
16 - S
18 - Blantyre
19-19A - C
32/33 - C
38's - C
41 - C
43/46 - C
60/60A/61 - C
64/65 - C
77 - S
81 - S

First Greater Glasgow

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member