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Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

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D.K.TAYLOR

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17:16 from Liverpool to Man Airport was a 2 coach 195 - I believe it may have been 195001 or 003. It was packed upto Piccadilly and the air conditioning had failed. Northern seem to be having problems with the 195s. Not to mention the rolling stock shortage is being excerbated with problems with the 319s as well - Pacers/150s are frequently having to cover on these routes.
It was 195001l was on it
 

Bovverboy

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Also, only a single 195/1 working 1O42 0709 LIV-MCO in place of the booked 2x 195/0s.

Is a single 195/0 covering for a 195/1 on the 0816/1116, etc (as yesterday), or not?
 
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Llama

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It was 195001l was on it
That was indeed 195001. The Aircon was problematic, I reset it earlier in the day at Manchester Airport, it obviously gave up again. Not good enough especially considering how busy that unit was yesterday.
 

Bovverboy

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The performance of 1F90 0551 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street is not robust enough for an early train. If 5F90 from Newton Heath runs, there is only five minutes for the coupling process at the Airport so no slack at all. Even if 5F90 runs early, the 0544 to Blackpool is on top of the waiting 195 off 1H40 in the platform at the Airport. It seems to be dependent on what is at Liverpool overnight and gets sent to the Airport on 1H40. There doesn't seem to be any information for the traincrew of 1F90 as to whether and when 5F90 is coming.

They could do as we do, and check it out on 'Realtime Trains'..
 

Camden

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That was indeed 195001. The Aircon was problematic, I reset it earlier in the day at Manchester Airport, it obviously gave up again. Not good enough especially considering how busy that unit was yesterday.
Out of interest, why does it give up do you know?
 

Llama

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I've no idea, you'd probably have to access the maintenance pages of the TCMS to find out the technical reasons why. Drivers don't (or shouldn't) have access to that level of info. The one thing I was looking forward to when it was announced that we were getting trains built by CAF was useful air conditioning, but that seems a bit too much to ask. When I reset it it was showing the temperature in the defective vehicle's saloon as being 26°C which is uncomfortable (the other saloon which was working showed 21°C IIRC) and it wasn't particularly warm weather yesterday.

When I got off the unit the passenger counting system was already showing that there were 109 passengers in the DMS vehicle and 70-odd in the DMSL, and that was with a platform full waiting to get on at Oxford Rd bound for Liverpool.
 

NWR001

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Is a single 195/0 covering for a 195/1 on the 0816/1116, etc (as yesterday), or not?

Nope, as booked, a 195/1 operating the 0816/1116 LIV-MIA circuit, it seems one of only a few diagrams operating using the booked stock today.
 

NWR001

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This will leave a single 142 to work the diagram from 0916 until to 1502, when they recouple at Lime St for the 1516 departure.

Scrap that, the 2x 142s remained coupled for the entirety of the day to give the capacity required, unsurprisingly.
 

Bovverboy

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Nope, as booked, a 195/1 operating the 0816/1116 LIV-MIA circuit, it seems one of only a few diagrams operating using the booked stock today.

Indeed, it's 195102. 195001 is working solo on Diagram 10 (0522 Barrow/1129 Windermere/1829 Barrow) - presumably, from the start of the diagram.
 

Bovverboy

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Same as yesterday, 2x 142s working 1H99 0613 LIV-WML, and return working 1F92 0748 WML-LIV, in place of the booked 2x 195 allocation.

This will leave a single 142 to work the diagram from 0916 until to 1502, when they recouple at Lime St for the 1516 departure.

Scrap that, the 2x 142s remained coupled for the entirety of the day to give the capacity required, unsurprisingly.

I think that's what would have happened yesterday, had a unit not been needed for the 1015 Wigan.
 

Railperf

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I've started the search period a shade early, the reason being that the unit working the 1344 to Barrow isn't scheduled to get back to Preston until 2018. If you see this one you should catch all the 195s in use on the Barrow/Windermere services (should be seven), in fact four should be through twice. I'll give scheduled platform numbers, but, believe me, these are subject to alteration.
1344 Barrow (P3)
1408 Manchester Airport (ex-Windermere) (P4)
1445 Barrow (P4)
1509 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow) (P4)
1545 Windermere (P4)
1608 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow) (P4)
1645 Barrow (P4)
1708 Manchester Airport (ex-Windermere) (P6)
1745 Barrow (P4)
1808 Manchester Airport (ex-Barrow) (P4)
1908 Windermere (P5 - arrives 1843)

The unit working the 1408 to Manchester Airport should be back at 1645, 1445 Barrow at 1808, 1509 Airport at 1745, 1608 Airport at 1843.

Cancellations are always a risk, but these are less likely on a Thursday than some other days. All the same, there have been some bad Thursdays. When trains do get cancelled it's usually either north of Preston only (there's often a crew change at Preston), or south of Preston only. It's less common for a train to be cancelled throughout.

I see that there are indeed some training runs scheduled for tomorrow, but these will not necessarily run, if they do run it won't necessarily be at the booked time, and I wouldn't be able to tell if they're intended to be 195s or not. If you want to keep track of those the best way to do it would be via the 'Realtime Trains' website.
Units used on training runs are usually ones which haven't yet seen passenger service.

I don't know if you're interested in 'electric' 195s (i.e. 331s), but there should be at least two of those in use on the Liverpool - Blackpool service, and any units coming through on training runs are more likely to be 331s than 195s.
Thanks very much. I managed to catch a 195 from Lancaster to Preston. And a 331 return Preston to Wigan. Great passenger trains compared to what they are replacing...195's lacking grunt - and disappointing on the mainline stretches ..even if they do get to 100 mph slightly quicker than a 170.. While the 3-car 331s are a revelation - the fastest accelerating UK EMU i have recorded to date - uphill too! Astonishing acceleration!
 

js1000

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Scrap that, the 2x 142s remained coupled for the entirety of the day to give the capacity required, unsurprisingly.
Can confirm. Was on the 07:48 from WIL-LIV & 18:16 from LIV-MIA. Both services the same doubled up Pacers.

Is this use of Pacers on the LIV-MIA route out of choice or neccessity? For instance could they just run a 3-coach 195 instead of 6 which they have done previously? Or are Northern so short of 195s that they're having to bring in doubled up Pacers/150s to plug the gap?
 

Bovverboy

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Is this use of Pacers on the LIV-MIA route out of choice or neccessity? For instance could they just run a 3-coach 195 instead of 6 which they have done previously? Or are Northern so short of 195s that they're having to bring in doubled up Pacers/150s to plug the gap?

Yesterday and today nine 195s have been in evidence, out of fourteen theoretically available. Two of the difference are cover for exams, and exams are things which can't always be deferred, we're often told, but that still leaves at least three units presumably kaput.
 
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Bovverboy

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Is a single 195/0 covering for a 195/1 on the 0816/1116, etc (as yesterday), or not?

Nope, as booked, a 195/1 operating the 0816/1116 LIV-MIA circuit, it seems one of only a few diagrams operating using the booked stock today.

Assuming we're talking 195 diagrams, I think the situation has been the same today as yesterday.
7 x 195/1 operating their booked diagram
1 x 195/1 covering for 2 x 195/0
1 x 195/0 covering for 1 x 195/1
Pacer(s) covering remaining diagram(s)

That's assuming the two diagrams I missed today were both covered by 195/1s. One I missed through having misread RTT, the other I missed by virtue of an ECS move having been cancelled - as it has for each of the last three nights.
 

Bovverboy

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Not to mention the rolling stock shortage is being excerbated with problems with the 319s as well - Pacers/150s are frequently having to cover on these routes.

323s aren't infallible - the 1721 Piccadilly - Stoke was covered by a Pacer this evening (= full), and that's diagrammed for a 323.
 

Bovverboy

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How well are the Pacers coping capacity-wise?

I witnessed 142040 & 142037 departing Oxford Road this evening with the 1645 Airport - Liverpool (5L). Passengers were standing all the way down the gangways, with not much in the way of gaps, but all intending passengers were able to board.
 

Karl

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When I got off the unit the passenger counting system was already showing that there were 109 passengers in the DMS vehicle and 70-odd in the DMSL, and that was with a platform full waiting to get on at Oxford Rd bound for Liverpool.

Interesting. I've not heard of this before. How does this work please?
 

Bovverboy

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The double 195/0 diagram is showing on 'Journey Check' as being short-formed at three carriages, so presumably a single 195/1 again. Nothing else is showing up of 195 relevance, but it doesn't always do, I'm afraid. Also, updates can be deleted very quickly - once a journey is mobile, any reference to it can be deleted, that seems to be the rule.
 

agbrs_Jack

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323s aren't infallible - the 1721 Piccadilly - Stoke was covered by a Pacer this evening (= full), and that's diagrammed for a 323.

I saw the Northern JourneyCheck formation update stating that this was 2 coaches instead of 4 yesterday (Where it got 4 from I don't know).

However I passed it at Kidsgrove (I was on 1756 SOT-CNG) and it was actually a 323.
 

Bovverboy

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323s aren't infallible - the 1721 Piccadilly - Stoke was covered by a Pacer this evening (= full), and that's diagrammed for a 323.

I saw the Northern JourneyCheck formation update stating that this was 2 coaches instead of 4 yesterday (Where it got 4 from I don't know).

However I passed it at Kidsgrove (I was on 1756 SOT-CNG) and it was actually a 323.

I, too, saw the 2 coaches versus 4 on 'Journey Check' and when I saw the rather full 142 departing I took it to be the Stoke, although I was stood on P13/14 myself at the time, and my view was obscured by a train arriving in P13. Checking back on RTT, I see that the 1721 was formed from the stock which would normally do 1701 Picc-Crewe, and the 1701 from whatever had been stood in P12 all day. I remember hearing a platform change announcement in respect of the Stoke, and with the benefit of hiindsight I suppose that should have set alarm bells ringing, but of course it didn't. I can only think that I heard the platform change announcement (presumably at, or slightly before, 1700) then saw the Pacer emerging from the throat of P9-P12 and assumed it to be the Stoke, without checking what the time was.
Of course, the foregoing doesn't alter the fact that a 142 was covering for a 323, or that the 142, whatever journey it might have been covering, was rather full!
 
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Llama

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Interesting. I've not heard of this before. How does this work please?
As I understand it it is all done by sensors, I assume infra-red. It's pretty accurate and responsive, you can see when people are walking through the unit from one coach to another too as the numbers shown in the passenger counting system (PCS) decrease & increase respectively.
 

agbrs_Jack

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I, too, saw the 2 coaches versus 4 on 'Journey Check' and when I saw the rather full 142 departing I took it to be the Stoke, although I was stood on P13/14 myself at the time, and my view was obscured by a train arriving in P13. Checking back on RTT, I see that the 1721 was formed from the stock which would normally do 1701 Picc-Crewe, and the 1701 from whatever had been stood in P12 all day. I remember hearing a platform change announcement in respect of the Stoke, with the benefit of hiindsight I suppose that should have set alarm bells ringing, but of course it didn't. I can only think that I heard the platform change announcement (presumably at, or slightly before, 1700) then saw the Pacer emerging from the throat of P9-P12 and assumed it to be the Stoke, without checking what the time was.
Of course, the foregoing doesn't alter the fact that a 142 was covering for a 323, or that the 142, whatever journey it might have been covering for, was rather full!

I was specifically looking for it as I would've kept an eye on it and caught the 2234 CNG-MAC to join it back to CNG on the 2253 MAC-CNG. For the Novelty of something that isn't a 323 of 22x in Congy!
 

js1000

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The double 195/0 diagram is showing on 'Journey Check' as being short-formed at three carriages, so presumably a single 195/1 again. Nothing else is showing up of 195 relevance, but it doesn't always do, I'm afraid. Also, updates can be deleted very quickly - once a journey is mobile, any reference to it can be deleted, that seems to be the rule.
Unusually diagram 6 (the six-coacher) was formed of 5 coaches today - 1no. /0 & 1no. /1. You really do get something new everyday on this diagram.

Although in fairness, 5 coaches for the MIA-LIV is probably perfect for this service. The problem with 6 coaches is the middle is usually packed whereas both ends are quiet with hoards of empty seats. Since the 195s have been introduced, on multiple ocassions the guard has announced this and encouraged passengers to move down the train where there are seats available.
 

Sleeperwaking

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Since the 195s have been introduced, on multiple ocassions the guard has announced this and encouraged passengers to move down the train where there are seats available.
I wonder if the passenger counting info Llama referenced gives the guard (as well as the driver) more visibility of uneven crowding across both units? Although it's probably obvious to experienced guards without the extra info.
 

Llama

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The guards should be able to check that info on the TCMS in the back cab, yes.
 

scrapy

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I wonder if the passenger counting info Llama referenced gives the guard (as well as the driver) more visibility of uneven crowding across both units? Although it's probably obvious to experienced guards without the extra info.
To be honest access to the CCTV probably gives the guard a better view of crowding on the train. The passenger counters on the 195s and 331s is not very reliable.
 
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