The plan for the 333’s was originally to make a metro layout in the driving cars only by making them 2+2 seating and adding larger stand back areas in the doorways and leaving the middle 2 coaches as they are. There were no plans to alter or add any toilets as they are PRM compliant as built. Hence the reduction in seating capacity and the huge increase in standing room. This was aborted on cost grounds due to the huge modifications in the door areas. Personally the metro style would have been a much better idea.
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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates
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samuelmorris
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Very similar to what was done with the 357/3s then but only for the driving vehicles?
AmateurRambler
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Off topic I know, but rumour has it there may be some issues deriving from difficulties in Network Rail being able to commence work on the extension works within the boundaries of the Princes Exchange car park. It is said that the leaseholders are reluctant to give up the car park, and are being aided by a rock solid lease.
If this is true then it could translate into a further delay.
superkev
Established Member
I thought Network rail had already started platform 0 but it was proceeding at the usual snail's pace.
Certainly plant and a couple of orangemen there the other day.
K
northernchris
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Thank you!
ASharpe
Member
There is a lot of work to be done before work can actually start:
Site investigations will have to be done for the overhead lines. And then filled back in before the actual holes are drilled. And there is always the risk that secondary surveys will be needed.
I suspect it will need a fair few more portacabins than are already present. Work will need to be done to connect utilities and sewerage.
A smaller site office will need to be established before work can start on connecting utilities to the site office.
A safe walking route will need to be established between the site office, worksite and access. And once the main site office is up and running this will need to be repeated.
Many hundreds of yards of barriers will need to be put up.
At the start of each shift contractors will need to drive many hundreds of miles to the site, and shortly after arriving head back before their shift ends.
And that's all before any actual work can start.
AmateurRambler
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Work has indeed started, and over the weekend of 26/27 October there is a partial closure of Leeds station (with a full possession on the Sunday morning) to allow for works associated with platform 0.
But all works to date are confined to the footprint of the now closed to the public Riverside car park. The Princes Exchange car park remains unscathed. Platform 0 will need to extend through both car parks to allow 8-car trains to fit. Otherwise it will only accommodate 4 cars.
sprinterguy
Established Member
331009 just arrived at Stoke-on-Trent on a run from Stockport:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09267/2019/09/19/advanced
Looks like it's going to be shuttling between Stoke, Macclesfield and Stockport for most of the day. First few paths linked below:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09268/2019/09/19/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09269/2019/09/19/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09270/2019/09/19/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09267/2019/09/19/advanced
Looks like it's going to be shuttling between Stoke, Macclesfield and Stockport for most of the day. First few paths linked below:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09268/2019/09/19/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09269/2019/09/19/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C09270/2019/09/19/advanced
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61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Again, those post-refurb figures are not correct, as they include the Metro seating changes which were axed.
Same issue now with Liverpool - Blackpool North as 3-car units are replacing 4-car 319s .
I can't believe Northern are reducing capacity by introducing new trains. By which I mean I can believe it, but it's utterly stupid.
Railperf
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Yes 3-car 331s indeed!
superkev
Established Member
Thanks to the man who Graylinged (paused) platform 0 at Leeds meaning the 4 cars have had to enter service on the east side.
K
mikemcniven
Member
Driver training is continuing between Stoke-on-Trent and Stockport, I caught up with the 5Z83 1107 Stoke to Stockport move today at Cheadle Hulme, have to say these sounded a lot more quiet around the sharp curve compared to the 323 it was following (A lot less squealing!)
Northern 331009 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
Northern 331009 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
agbrs_Jack
Member
I also saw one for the first time at Stoke yesterday (although my picture file size is too large to post).
I have a question however: If this is driver training, surely they would use Platform 3 at Stoke? (3-coach units fit easily, 4-coach ones don't at all)
Bantamzen
Established Member
And of course absolutely zero movement on any platform lengthening anywhere on the Aire / Wharfe Triangle routes. We'd quite happily swap the 331/1s for the 331/0s if we could guarantee that 2*331/0 workings could be accommodated. But unsurprisingly platform lengthening, or the lack of doesn't even get a mention in local media. If a similar problem existed in the Kingdom of Greater Manchester, the Mayor would have almost daily media time on the matter....
Theres no need to use the bay for driver training if it's for unit familiarsation. As long as your driving the unit and getting the required handling you could do it anywhere on your route card really.
mikemcniven
Member
There is also the point of the bay platform still be required for the hourly 323 service, of which the 331 was directly behind meaning the bay would have been occupied when it was in Stoke-on-Trent
YorkshireBear
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Did the 4 car 319s run full?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What units were used on that route prior to the 4-car Class 319 units?
jonesy3001
Established Member
was a mixture of pacers and sprinters.
Typing this message from a 331- my first ride, on the 10.06 from Wigan to Blackpool North. I used to catch this train in the spring semi regularly to get to work on a Saturday. I never knew it full with a 319, but the 331 is full and standing- not jammed, but every seat is occupied. Even discounting the good weather, this is a very well loaded train.
Otherwise, it's a great train (the acceleration is unbelievable!), but the NW probably does need the four car sets to enter service sooner rather than later if this is my experience of a Saturday morning working.
YorkshireBear
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Fair play thanks! Was a genuine question never travelled the route.
You're making the assumption that passenger loadings were ever deemed to require a 319. Given the overheads were available and the stock situation then it would be madness to use a DMU simply because the loadings "do not justify" a 319. You make use of the wires regardless, and use the DMU for something else. The capacity of the EMU in question doesn't automatically figure in the decision.
Who's said anything about DMUs? My point was, a 3-car 331 would appear to be much more crowded than a 4-car 319, even with the same number of passengers, simply as a consequence of the significant drop in capacity.
northernchris
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It would depend on how busy the 319s are on the route. If a 2 car DMU would cope with the majority of the loadings then a 3 car 331 will be fine, however if the 319s are busy then a significant drop in seats could cause issues
You seem to be working to an assumption that it is never valid to reduce the capacity of stock used on a service. That simply is not the case.
Prior to electrification this route ran with DMUs. After electrification the available electric stock was 4 car 319s. That does not mean that the route required that capacity.
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