How come German tracks are so incredibly smooth?

Giugiaro · 22 Sep 2019

Been to Frankfurt this week and I can't fandom just how smooth the rails are over there.
It's not just the conventional rail that has such a high quality ride. Even the U-Bahn and the Trams have unbelievable smooth tracks. All trains run incredibly stable and silent, like they're running over cotton!

This contrasts so badly with the ride quality in Portugal. The Metro is noisy and feels like it's driving over literal cobble stone, and even the recently modernized sections of track have the rail welds pretty noticeable.

How do the Germans keep their tracks so well maintained, even in tramways? How much money do they invest in maintenance? Do they use some kind of special maintenance machine that keep the rail smooth? How often are rails replaced? How do they do it without closing or severely affecting rail transit?

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Terry Tait · 22 Sep 2019

Their railway is not being sucked dry by shareholders and greedy unions.

paddington · 22 Sep 2019

Go to Berlin or Duesseldorf and your opinion may change

I agree that rides in Frankfurt, and also Munich are very smooth

Royston Vasey · 22 Sep 2019

Terry Tait said:
Their railway is not being sucked dry by shareholders and greedy unions.

Don't bet on it. The German unions and workers' councils are some of the most powerful in the world. The difference is the employers are so scared of crossing them that they rarely allow a dispute to proceed as far as a strike... so from the outside you wouldn't notice.

duesselmartin · 22 Sep 2019

Düsseldorf is surprisingly bumpy despite the fact that the operator Rheinbahn is financially sound.
Mainline tracks seem to have a similar standard to its neighbours or even slightly below the Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland or Austria.

I think Portugal ist simply starved of money.

Giugiaro · 22 Sep 2019

paddington said:
Go to Berlin or Duesseldorf and your opinion may change.

I've been to Berlin last year and I felt the track was very well maintained as well. It shocked me that even the wood sleeper track used on the S-Bahn had such smooth rails. Definitely leagues better than what we currently have anywhere in Portugal.

MarcVD · 22 Sep 2019

For the smoothest track, go to Luxembourg. It is just incredible over there. Notably their switches, you can barely feel it when you ride on one. France used to be very good until they started starving their classical network in favor of TGV lines. Belgium becomes better everyday and is today better than France, you can feel the difference when crossing the border, even on LGV. I know a belgian TGV driver who is afraid to drive his train at full speed on the LGV between Lille and Calais.

LeeLivery · 22 Sep 2019

MarcVD said:
Belgium becomes better everyday and is today better than France, you can feel the difference when crossing the border, even on LGV. I know a belgian TGV driver who is afraid to drive his train at full speed on the LGV between Lille and Calais.

Having used LGV Nord last week, this doesn't surprise me. The route has become rather bumpy down to Paris - the Velaro felt like an HST down the roughest bits of the Midland.

MarcVD · 22 Sep 2019

Also, one of the reasons why it might feel smoother in Germany is that they use another type of double slip, that allows a greater radius, and thus a better ride. It is named the 'Baeseler' double slip. Notably more complex than the usual model, which explains why it was not widely adopted.

The right one is a Baeseler.

MarcVD · 22 Sep 2019

In Belgium we also use a special type of crossing that I have not seen very frequently on other networks :

It akso makes the ride much smoother than on a normal crossing.

Gostav · 23 Sep 2019

MarcVD said:
In Belgium we also use a special type of crossing that I have not seen very frequently on other networks :

View attachment 68706

It akso makes the ride much smoother than on a normal crossing.

Powered diamonds also can be found in UK.

Bletchleyite · 23 Sep 2019

Gostav said:
Powered diamonds also can be found in UK.

Where out of interest?

That kind of setup does give you the curious experience of completely crossing the throat of a large terminus but without any "bang bang, bang bang" as you go - quite surreal the first time I experienced it.

I do find generally, though, that Germany has a very high standard of track alignment and maintenance such that, compared with other countries, there is barely any side to side movement even when travelling at speed. Even the smallest branch line is in superb condition compared with the WCML in that regard. It might explain why German-built stock (Desiros in particular) are quite rough on UK track.

TRAX · 23 Sep 2019

LeeLivery said:
Having used LGV Nord last week, this doesn't surprise me. The route has become rather bumpy down to Paris - the Velaro felt like an HST down the roughest bits of the Midland.

The Velaro has a much bumpier ride than any TGV and Avelia, though.

ainsworth74 · 23 Sep 2019

TRAX said:
The Velaro has a much bumpier ride than any TGV and Avelia, though.

It does but even on a classic Eurostar LGV Nord was bumpy.

30907 · 23 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Where out of interest?

That kind of setup does give you the curious experience of completely crossing the throat of a large terminus but without any "bang bang, bang bang" as you go - quite surreal the first time I experienced it.

Switch diamonds are fairly common where there is a 40mph or faster double junction, and there isn't the space to replace them with a double ladder - or where the layout hasn't been renewed for decades.
Satellite mapping isn't clear enough for me to be certain, but Slade Lane Jn in Manchester should be one, and there are some in the Shortlands Jn - Chiselhurst Jns area that were part of the 1959 rebuild. Any on the southern WCML will have gone with the upgrade job (I presume Watford S Jn used to be).

On track quality in Germany generally, I agree, but there are very few routes that are heavily trafficked and high speed in the way that the main lines out of London are.

Ploughman · 23 Sep 2019

30907 said:
Switch diamonds are fairly common where there is a 40mph or faster double junction, and there isn't the space to replace them with a double ladder - or where the layout hasn't been renewed for decades.
Satellite mapping isn't clear enough for me to be certain, but Slade Lane Jn in Manchester should be one, and there are some in the Shortlands Jn - Chiselhurst Jns area that were part of the 1959 rebuild. Any on the southern WCML will have gone with the upgrade job (I presume Watford S Jn used to be).

On track quality in Germany generally, I agree, but there are very few routes that are heavily trafficked and high speed in the way that the main lines out of London are.

Do you mean Swing Nose crossings ?
These give a continuous rail rather than having a gap.

dazzler · 23 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Where out of interest?

Colton Junction on the ECML just south of York, where the Selby Diversion branches off the Normanton Lines. Swing nose crossings are needed as both arms of the junction can be taken at 125mph in both directions.

hexagon789 · 23 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Where out of interest?

Couple on the approach to Glasgow Central

30907 · 23 Sep 2019

Ploughman said:
Do you mean Swing Nose crossings ?
These give a continuous rail rather than having a gap.

No, I meant switch(ed) diamonds as in MarcVD's photo. Swing Nose crossings are a type of these but additionally move at the common crossing (frog on a model railway!), to allow very high speed moves.
I don't think conventional switch diamonds exceed 60mph - 70 requires a ladder.

MarcVD · 23 Sep 2019

This is what you call 'swing nose crossing' :

Bald Rick · 23 Sep 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Where out of interest?

Switch diamonds are all over the network.

Giugiaro · 3 Oct 2019

OK, for the first time that I know the Portuguese railway network manager has signed a contract with Speno International for rail head grinding.
http://www.base.gov.pt/Base/pt/Pesquisa/Contrato?a=5890831

It's a total of 1.074.197,50 € for 3 years. Can't tell if this is an acceptable value when almost 60% of the network track was evaluated as "bad or mediocre" (Source)

Mediocre is something a little like this:

View media item 3549

How come German tracks are so incredibly smooth?

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