Trainsplit and Crosscountry double reservation

xcseatless · 21 Sep 2019

I've booked a two day itinerary, travelling today and tomorrow, from Trainsplit, with a whole big stack of reservations. Unfortunately this has already gone badly wrong on the first leg. There's a woman already in the seat for which I hold a reservation. But so does she (I've seen it) and she started a massive row when apparently I sighed in a way she decided was rude.

Two reservations. Same seat. FML.

The Cross Country train manager blames Trainsplit for 'not uploading the reservations' and says 'this is what you get when you use third parties on the internet' and he's 'had dealings with them before' and he's away as fast as possible to share his lack of empathy with the rest of the train.

So I'm now doomed to play Whose Bum Wins for the rest of the weekend and self-censoring my sighs in case some dismal punter is cruising for a row. And my SIM provider doesn't support sending texts to the Cross Country ten-minute reservation cray-cray-payola line.

I don't care a damn about the rail industry's internal chaos, but it would be nice if they didn't export it onto honest customers, but now that I'm a victim of incompetence from *someone*, I'd damn well like to know Who, and Why, and what are my reasonable expectations to be made whole?

RailUK Forums

virgintrain1 · 21 Sep 2019

Why don't you use the TrainSplit to see when and where to split the tickets and then book direct with TOC in this case XC and use their interactive seat plan to select the same seat. That's what I used to do.

Starmill · 21 Sep 2019

After you explained what had happened to the train manager, did you then have to stand? If so, you might complain to CrossCountry for failing to provide you with a seat when you had reserved one. You're entitled to some compensation.

Deerfold · 21 Sep 2019

virgintrain1 said:
Why don't you use the TrainSplit to see when and where to split the tickets and then book direct with TOC in this case XC and use their interactive seat plan to select the same seat. That's what I used to do.

If everyone does that, don't expect Trainsplit to remain around.

I have had the same issue a few years ago, but both tickets were bought from NXEC for NXEC trains.

alistairlees · 21 Sep 2019

xcseatless said:
I've booked a two day itinerary, travelling today and tomorrow, from Trainsplit, with a whole big stack of reservations. Unfortunately this has already gone badly wrong on the first leg. There's a woman already in the seat for which I hold a reservation. But so does she (I've seen it) and she started a massive row when apparently I sighed in a way she decided was rude.

Two reservations. Same seat. FML.

The Cross Country train manager blames Trainsplit for 'not uploading the reservations' and says 'this is what you get when you use third parties on the internet' and he's 'had dealings with them before' and he's away as fast as possible to share his lack of empathy with the rest of the train.

So I'm now doomed to play Whose Bum Wins for the rest of the weekend and self-censoring my sighs in case some dismal punter is cruising for a row. And my SIM provider doesn't support sending texts to the Cross Country ten-minute reservation cray-cray-payola line.

I don't care a damn about the rail industry's internal chaos, but it would be nice if they didn't export it onto honest customers, but now that I'm a victim of incompetence from *someone*, I'd damn well like to know Who, and Why, and what are my reasonable expectations to be made whole?

Best not to jump to conclusions. It could just as easily be an error by the company that the woman booked her seats through, as by TrainSplit. The guard should not be making unfounded accusations against accredited third parties.

trainophile · 21 Sep 2019

Did you check her ticket thoroughly? Right date, right coach, right time?

Wallsendmag · 21 Sep 2019

There are a few companies that allow you to change your reservation after the ticket is printed, only problem is nobody ever remembers that they’ve changed their reservation

MikeWh · 22 Sep 2019

virgintrain1 said:
Why don't you use the TrainSplit to see when and where to split the tickets and then book direct with TOC in this case XC and use their interactive seat plan to select the same seat. That's what I used to do.

Deerfold said:
If everyone does that, don't expect Trainsplit to remain around.

Quite. And don't forget that if you need to make a change to the tickets, trainsplit will only charge 1 admin fee as opposed to 1 per ticket.

221129 · 22 Sep 2019

MikeWh said:
Quite. And don't forget that if you need to make a change to the tickets, trainsplit will only charge 1 admin fee as opposed to 1 per ticket.

Whereas XC doesn't charge any fees if brought from their website.

embers25 · 22 Sep 2019

xcseatless said:
I've booked a two day itinerary, travelling today and tomorrow, from Trainsplit, with a whole big stack of reservations. Unfortunately this has already gone badly wrong on the first leg. There's a woman already in the seat for which I hold a reservation. But so does she (I've seen it) and she started a massive row when apparently I sighed in a way she decided was rude.

Two reservations. Same seat. FML.

The Cross Country train manager blames Trainsplit for 'not uploading the reservations' and says 'this is what you get when you use third parties on the internet' and he's 'had dealings with them before' and he's away as fast as possible to share his lack of empathy with the rest of the train.

So I'm now doomed to play Whose Bum Wins for the rest of the weekend and self-censoring my sighs in case some dismal punter is cruising for a row. And my SIM provider doesn't support sending texts to the Cross Country ten-minute reservation cray-cray-payola line.

I don't care a damn about the rail industry's internal chaos, but it would be nice if they didn't export it onto honest customers, but now that I'm a victim of incompetence from *someone*, I'd damn well like to know Who, and Why, and what are my reasonable expectations to be made whole?

Surely, unless you and the lady both have identical origin and destinations on your reservations, its easy to resolve who has the reservation that was uploaded correctly by what the reservation says above the seat as it puts both origin and destination on XC. At least that enables blame to be apportioned, as the XC guard should have done, rather than complaining immaturely about trainsplit. I also find it interesting XC guards have such issues with split tickets, given it is so widely publicised that you should always split ticket on XC due to their ridiculous fares and draconian 0930 restriction. Every time I travel someone has mountains of reservations as they are making a long journey and they play musical chairs the whole way between their different reserved seats.

yorkie · 22 Sep 2019

xcseatless said:
The Cross Country train manager blames Trainsplit for 'not uploading the reservations' and says 'this is what you get when you use third parties on the internet' and he's 'had dealings with them before' and he's away as fast as possible to share his lack of empathy with the rest of the train.

Did you get the name of the TM?

Either way I'd be writing to XC and ask if it's th company's official policy to discourage the use of third party retailers.

virgintrain1 said:
Why don't you use the TrainSplit to see when and where to split the tickets and then book direct with TOC in this case XC and use their interactive seat plan to select the same seat. That's what I used to do.

Bear in mind that if you do this, you would need to be careful when adding each ticket in your basket to ensure that the dates and times match up. Furthermore, if you select Ticket On Departure (TOD), you will have to enter a TOD code for every single ticket. Alternatively, if you choose an e-ticket you will get a separate email, each containing a separate PDF, per ticket.

Also CrossCountry have been known to mistreat passengers and deny them their rights. If you have booked with XC, you will be on your own in any dispute (until you get a deadlock letter then you'd need to go to the Ombudsman). A third party retailer offering a combination of tickets for one journey is likely to back you up; you'd also have the benefit of a through itinerary on one booking confirmation email that details all tickets and all trains for your journey, making it difficult for anyone who seeks to deny you your rights and making it easier for you to assert your rights.

But the choice is yours

takno · 22 Sep 2019

221129 said:
Whereas XC doesn't charge any fees if brought from their website.

Have XC abolished their print-at-station charges then? That particular surprise charge at the end of the transaction took them straight off the list of sites I ever use.

Blinkbonny · 22 Sep 2019

It seems to come and go. I've never managed to work out their criteria.

Starmill · 22 Sep 2019

Blinkbonny said:
It seems to come and go. I've never managed to work out their criteria.

I think it's to do with whether or not the ticket is available for delivery electronically. If it's not, ToD is free.

xcseatless · 22 Sep 2019

trainophile said:
Did you check her ticket thoroughly? Right date, right coach, right time?

I've not been trained in how to check tickets thoroughly! But it appeared to be right date, and right departure time from Newcastle. Hers said D39A, mine said D39, if that's what Philip Marlowe would call a Clue.

embers25 said:
Surely, unless you and the lady both have identical origin and destinations on your reservations, its easy to resolve who has the reservation that was uploaded correctly by what the reservation says above the seat as it puts both origin and destination on XC.

Ha ha no. Nice try. This was a 5 coach voyager. Every seat in coach D just said RESERVED. In coach F was the scrolling display you describe, but not in D.

Anyway, here is a general update. My south-of-Birmingham reservation in coach F of the same goddamn xc train was present, as was my subsequent reservation on GWR. So this looks very much like an XC cockup causing reputational damage to innocent Trainsplit / Raileasy. Hopefully I'll have a good return journey 20 mins from now.

Thanks all.

SickyNicky · 22 Sep 2019

Just as an aside, our system means that we can't issue a seat reservation without first having a confirmation from NRS that the seat is reserved for us. I assume that's the same for any other accredited site. The "double booking" described would normally be the result of one or other customer (or retailer) having since cancelled (or changed) the reservations.

Of course, I don't rule out a bug at either retailer or even NRS, although if it were a problem at our end, we would have seen a pattern of such problems, and this is the first time I've heard of it happening. In any case, we keep logs of the confirmation number given to us by NRS, so it would be simple enough to confirm that NRS gave us the assigned seat (and I'm willing to bet that it did).

221129 · 22 Sep 2019

xcseatless said:
I've not been trained in how to check tickets thoroughly! But it appeared to be right date, and right departure time from Newcastle. Hers said D39A, mine said D39, if that's what Philip Marlowe would call a Clue.

Ha ha no. Nice try. This was a 5 coach voyager. Every seat in coach D just said RESERVED. In coach F was the scrolling display you describe, but not in D.

Anyway, here is a general update. My south-of-Birmingham reservation in coach F of the same goddamn xc train was present, as was my subsequent reservation on GWR. So this looks very much like an XC cockup causing reputational damage to innocent Trainsplit / Raileasy. Hopefully I'll have a good return journey 20 mins from now.

Thanks all.

If yours just said D39 that looks like her reservation was the correct one.

Wallsendmag · 22 Sep 2019

In all the supposed cases of double bookings that I’ve looked into there has always been one of the reservations cancelled. In my experience NRS doesn’t make double bookings.

alistairlees · 22 Sep 2019

221129 said:
If yours just said D39 that looks like her reservation was the correct one.

No that's not correct. You can't infer anything from the "A" suffix. Some TIS still add this (and other suffixes) on, as it used to be in the RSP spec. It doesn't mean anything with respect to whether the booking was successful or not in NRS.

trainophile · 22 Sep 2019

Wallsendmag said:
In all the supposed cases of double bookings that I’ve looked into there has always been one of the reservations cancelled. In my experience NRS doesn’t make double bookings.

There's nothing to physically stop people making a ticket amendment, which cancels the original seat booking, but then deciding to travel on the original ticket after all. Totally against the rules of course, but ticket checks don't pick it up, so unless the barrier does (and presumably it won't if you're still on the same day) then that would account for the alleged "duplication".

221129 · 22 Sep 2019

alistairlees said:
No that's not correct. You can't infer anything from the "A" suffix. Some TIS still add this (and other suffixes) on, as it used to be in the RSP spec. It doesn't mean anything with respect to whether the booking was successful or not in NRS.

Really? Every reservation I've seen this week has had the A suffix.

Deerfold · 22 Sep 2019

221129 said:
Really? Every reservation I've seen this week has had the A suffix.

Mine for tomorrow haven't.

trainophile · 22 Sep 2019

I always thought the A was for backwards facing, and F for forwards facing (obviously only applies on 4-seat bays or tables). That's how it seems to work on TfW anyway.

route101 · 22 Sep 2019

embers25 said:
Surely, unless you and the lady both have identical origin and destinations on your reservations, its easy to resolve who has the reservation that was uploaded correctly by what the reservation says above the seat as it puts both origin and destination on XC. At least that enables blame to be apportioned, as the XC guard should have done, rather than complaining immaturely about trainsplit. I also find it interesting XC guards have such issues with split tickets, given it is so widely publicised that you should always split ticket on XC due to their ridiculous fares and draconian 0930 restriction. Every time I travel someone has mountains of reservations as they are making a long journey and they play musical chairs the whole way between their different reserved seats.

When i had 3 seat reservations when splitting i just went to unreserved carriage .

Bletchleyite · 22 Sep 2019

trainophile said:
I always thought the A was for backwards facing, and F for forwards facing (obviously only applies on 4-seat bays or tables). That's how it seems to work on TfW anyway.

F = forward facing table seat
B = back facing table seat
A = airline (could face either way)

A is also used for table seats where seats are individually numbered. The old way of doing it was to number the opposite seats at a table the same, so you got the correct direction regardless of which way round the coach was. Some of TfW's trains are still numbered that way I believe.

Some systems omit the suffix if it isn't F/B.

Wallsendmag · 22 Sep 2019

221129 said:
Really? Every reservation I've seen this week has had the A suffix.

The A, F and B are redundant now in most cases , some TIS still print the A some don't

alistairlees · 22 Sep 2019

Hull Trains still use F and B. Seat 26F and 26B are entirely different seats in coach A, for instance.

Deafdoggie · 22 Sep 2019

takno said:
Have XC abolished their print-at-station charges then? That particular surprise charge at the end of the transaction took them straight off the list of sites I ever use.

If you buy a ticket that is XC only there is a TOD charge, if you buy a ticket that isn’t, it’s free. Basically other operators even out by printing other TOCs tickets on their machines, and other TICs printing their tickets. But XC don’t own any machines so get charged for each print out. There are ways round it, if I buy a SOT-CNM ticket there’s a charge. If I buy a LPT-CNM ticket there isn’t, even though the fare is the same!

Skipness · 23 Sep 2019

I have been using trainsplit for a number of years now, and have saved myself hundreds of pounds (on journeys between the midlands and Cornwall) Seat reservations have always been an irritation, usually having to change seats or coach at New Street, but the games of musical chairs can provide fresh faces to talk to during the journey. I have never experienced a double booking.

Paul Kelly · 23 Sep 2019

Skipness said:
I have never experienced a double booking.

What proportion of your bookings involved reservations made on the day of travel (this is where the OP had a problem)?

Trainsplit and Crosscountry double reservation

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