TfL Rail Paddington to Reading December 2019

Ethano92 · 25 Aug 2019

Both very helpful to what I was looking for, thanks. I should've been clearer.

RailUK Forums

kevin_roche · 28 Aug 2019

There is an article, by Mark Wild, on the London First website which reports progress and confirms the Crossrail plans.

We began our multi-train testing in the tunnels in June with trains running close to each other at higher speeds

Testing and commissioning activity is taking place at all central section stations except at Bond Street where fit-out and systems installation continues

Fit-out of the tunnels is almost complete, and very soon we’ll soon begin hand over of the completed shafts and portals

We’ve got a joint team of senior technical experts from Bombardier, Siemens and Crossrail working together to quickly find solutions to integrating the train and signalling systems

Fifteen new class 345 trains are in operation with TfL Rail on the eastern and western parts of the route, building reliability and achieving a high standard of performance

The first nine-car (full-length) train is now in passenger service from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington

From December this year, TfL will be running services between Paddington and Reading, and early next year we’ll get the new trains running through another complex signalling system down to Heathrow Airport.

MarlowDonkey · 28 Aug 2019

swt_passenger said:
I sort of equated “stopping” with running on the reliefs

Slough gets calls on services to and from beyond Reading, but for Twyford and Maidenhead, what would the strategy be if wanting a central London Elizabeth Line destination? I doubt the semi fasts are going to be allowed on the mains, so is there scope to overtake an all stations TfL train? Only at West Drayton, if at all. With the enhanced service on the central core from Paddington eastwards, would changing at Paddington from high level to low level work? That probably depends on how convoluted the interchange within Paddington becomes. The layout for changing to and from the Hammersmith & City isn't set up for ease of connection even though platform 14 used to be part of the same Bishops Road station. You could wait at Hayes or Ealing instead for the next TfL service. Less walking.

swt_passenger · 28 Aug 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
Slough gets calls on services to and from beyond Reading, but for Twyford and Maidenhead, what would the strategy be if wanting a central London Elizabeth Line destination? I doubt the semi fasts are going to be allowed on the mains, so is there scope to overtake an all stations TfL train? Only at West Drayton, if at all. With the enhanced service on the central core from Paddington eastwards, would changing at Paddington from high level to low level work? That probably depends on how convoluted the interchange within Paddington becomes. The layout for changing to and from the Hammersmith & City isn't set up for ease of connection even though platform 14 used to be part of the same Bishops Road station. You could wait at Hayes or Ealing instead for the next TfL service. Less walking.

That’s been the 64,000 dollar question for some years. If interchange in Paddington is tending towards 5-10 minutes, ie across from P12 or P14 over to the entrance via P1 then down to Crossrail level, and trains aren’t being overtaken, then maybe they hope people will just use Crossrail for the full journey from Maidenhead. Quite different in the peaks though as mentioned earlier.

Non Multi · 28 Aug 2019

From December I'll normally use the 345s from my local stations (Taplow, Burnham) as far as Reading or Hayes & H. I really find the seating uncomfortable, a journey of 15-20 minutes on these units is going to be the maximum I'll put up with. My preference will be to change at Slough for London-bound journeys onto a 387/IET and change at Paddington as I don't mind walking and/or waiting. It should be no slower than changing onto the Tube currently, and a slightly quicker interchange than with the Central Line at nearby Lancaster Gate.

MarlowDonkey · 29 Aug 2019

swt_passenger said:
If interchange in Paddington is tending towards 5-10 minutes, ie across from P12 or P14 over to the entrance via P1 then down to Crossrail level, and trains aren’t being overtaken, then maybe they hope people will just use Crossrail for the full journey from Maidenhead.

The logical solution for Central London destinations may be to take the GWR 387 as far as Hayes or Ealing and then wait for a Heathrow 345. That should save a few minutes over waiting for a 345 from Reading and avoids a lengthy walk through Paddington station.

It might work in the opposite direction out of London except that on the current timetable in the evenings after the peak, the faster GWR services to Maidenhead don't stop at Ealing or Hayes.

nw1 · 29 Aug 2019

si404 said:
Not quite - the Didcot stopper basically becomes semi-fast east of Reading and the Readings stop more.

Currently Readings stop Ealing Bdwy, Southall (down only), Hayes & H, W Drayton, Slough, Burnham, Taplow, Maidenhead and Twyford; and Didcots stop Ealing Bdwy, Southall (up only), Hayes & H, W Drayton, Iver, Langley, Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading, Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring and Cholsey.

In December the Readings pick up the Southall (up), Iver and Langley stops to become all-stops west of Southall (skipping 3 stops east of there). The Didcots lose them, only stopping at major relief line stops east of Maidenhead (Ealing, Hayes, W Drayton* and Slough only - skipping 8 stops) and then stopping all stops

*which will be lost when through-services begin on the Elizabeth line, with Maidenhead services meaning 4tph off-peak and so no need for Didcot services to stop there.

Always thought that's what they always should have done in the Turbo era, transfer some stops from the (as were) Oxford stopping services onto the Reading terminators, so that the Reading terminators became close-to-all-stations and the Oxfords stopped only at those stops with 4 trains an hour (i.e. the pattern described above) - having travelled both Reading-Ealing and Maidenhead-London and noting how slow the journey seemed in both cases. This new pattern will make journeys such as Reading-Hayes or Ealing, and Maidenhead-London, significantly quicker.

However ISTR there were operational reasons why they could not do that.

si404 · 29 Aug 2019

nickw1 said:
However ISTR there were operational reasons why they could not do that.

Keeping the 4tph at Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading pretty much evenly-spaced (as well as at Ealing Broadway, Hayes and West Drayton) and pretty much even journey times meaning that it's very much a turn-up-and-go service. Operationally simpler and more balanced, sure, but the primary winners of the current pattern of service are the passengers.

Post-December (and until trains run through the core) we'll have GWR carrying the bulk of the off-peak relief line traffic to/from Maidenhead and Twyford. GWR will feel quicker non-stopping stations, rather than calling at all until well into London, beyond the actual difference in time (about 5 minutes - 1 per stop?) - especially as Readings would slow down by 2/3 stops and Didcots speed up by 2/3 stops. You'd look up to see when the GWR is leaving and aim to get to the station then rather than take the 'slow' train (despite it not really mattering) - the service ceases being TUAG.

Hopefully, Tilehurst, etc to London passengers gaining a near-negligible 2/3 minutes reduction in journey time will have the psychological boost that counteracts the negative effect of busier trains. Otherwise this change will be controversial both sides of Reading!

nw1 · 29 Aug 2019

si404 said:
Keeping the 4tph at Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading pretty much evenly-spaced (as well as at Ealing Broadway, Hayes and West Drayton) and pretty much even journey times meaning that it's very much a turn-up-and-go service. Operationally simpler and more balanced, sure, but the primary winners of the current pattern of service are the passengers.

Post-December (and until trains run through the core) we'll have GWR carrying the bulk of the off-peak relief line traffic to/from Maidenhead and Twyford. GWR will feel quicker non-stopping stations, rather than calling at all until well into London, beyond the actual difference in time (about 5 minutes - 1 per stop?) - especially as Readings would slow down by 2/3 stops and Didcots speed up by 2/3 stops. You'd look up to see when the GWR is leaving and aim to get to the station then rather than take the 'slow' train (despite it not really mattering) - the service ceases being TUAG.

Hopefully, Tilehurst, etc to London passengers gaining a near-negligible 2/3 minutes reduction in journey time will have the psychological boost that counteracts the negative effect of busier trains. Otherwise this change will be controversial both sides of Reading!

It depends on whether you prefer a frequent, fairly fast service or very frequent, slower service, I do remember when doing both the above journeys (including a weekend when I did Maidenhead-London on two consecutive days) that the service did seem a little irritatingly slow; granted the actual delay might not be great thinking about it, but the new pattern would seem like a faster and smoother journey into London. The slowest one though was an evening pre-peak Ealing to Reading at a time of day when most trains stopped at almost every station, this was in 2008.

Thinking about my local station (Southampton Central) and trying to find an analogy with it, I would prefer the current half-hourly fast service into London compared to a 15-minute interval service in which all trains stopped at all of Parkway, Eastleigh, Winchester, Basingstoke, Farnborough, Woking, Clapham and London.

Personally i don't see the need for turn up and go outside metro areas but understand that others' views might be different.

si404 · 29 Aug 2019

nickw1 said:
I do remember when doing both the above journeys (including a weekend when I did Maidenhead-London on two consecutive days) that the service did seem a little irritatingly slow; granted the actual delay might not be great thinking about it, but the new pattern would seem like a faster and smoother journey into London. The slowest one though was an evening pre-peak Ealing to Reading at a time of day when most trains stopped at almost every station, this was in 2008.

Yes - this is my point: while they might seem a great improvement in speed, the emphasis is on 'seem'/'feel'/other such words. The change vs now is 2-3 minutes (as 2-3 stops) - faster in one case, slower in the other - but will feel far more. The TfL Rail will feel even slower as it stops at all minor stations (other than in LB Ealing), while the GWR will seem like some big improvement in journey time as it doesn't.

Personally i don't see the need for turn up and go outside metro areas but understand that others' views might be different.

Arguably the Thames Valley is part of a metro area. Certainly other places a similar distance out from London get TUAG metro-esque service: Hertford, WGC, St Albans/Luton, Medway, Gatwick, Southend, etc.

I think 4tph all roughly even is a better service than 2 * 2tph, with 2tph being seen as the 'all shacks' to be avoided where possible and 2tph being 5 minutes faster and so the train worth getting. Arguably that's mostly psychological too - no need for timetables, etc - rather than a material difference, but...

Beemax · 30 Aug 2019

But how would the timings align at Maidenhead? For example, if I wanted to travel off peak from Reading to Ealing, would it be worth taking a semi-fast GWR to Maidenhead and then switching to a Crossrail which would be 4 tph (6tph peak) into London ?

si404 · 30 Aug 2019

Beemax said:
But how would the timings align at Maidenhead? For example, if I wanted to travel off peak from Reading to Ealing, would it be worth taking a semi-fast GWR to Maidenhead and then switching to a Crossrail which would be 4 tph (6tph peak) into London ?

You'd just stay on your semi-fast GWR that'll stop at Ealing Broadway!

matt_world2004 · 25 Sep 2019

Tfl Rail to Readings timetables now available incorrectly listed under paddington to terminal 4

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tfl-rail/tfl-rail-timetables

si404 · 25 Sep 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Tfl Rail to Readings timetables now available incorrectly listed under paddington to terminal 4

Not really incorrectly listed as much as deliberately omitting Reading references from the access page to avoid confusion.

kevin_roche · 25 Sep 2019

si404 said:
Not really incorrectly listed as much as deliberately omitting Reading references from the access page to avoid confusion.

It will almost certainly confuse those who want to travel between Twyford and Maidenhead.

si404 · 25 Sep 2019

kevin_roche said:
It will almost certainly confuse those who want to travel between Twyford and Maidenhead.

I imagine nearer the time they will change it so the link page refers to Reading. However TfL don't currently run trains that way and so omitting the reference there saves more confusion than it causes.

The actual timetables mention Reading on the front page and when stations are stocked they will have it. The GWR timetables will have the TfL services in them (unlike vice versa), so Maidenhead and Tywford customers won't be confused - they'd just go to the place they did before.

MarlowDonkey · 25 Sep 2019

si404 said:
You'd just stay on your semi-fast GWR that'll stop at Ealing Broadway!

I checked the off peak services from Maidenhead for 17th December.

xx:05 is the TfL nearly all stations, taking 42 minutes
xx:26 is the GWR from Didcot, taking 35 minutes, calling at Slough, West Drayton, Hayes and Ealing
You can also change at Slough to a non-stop from Oxford (800/802?) taking 28 minutes including change of platform at Slough
xx:35 is the other Tfl taking 42 minutes
xx:53 is the other GWR, again with the option of changing to a non-stop at Slough.

Sensibly most of the service on the Marlow branch runs five or six minutes earlier, so as to connect with the xx:26 at Maidenhead and also the faster GWRs out of Paddington in the opposite direction.

The current service from Maidenhead is

xx:02 (44 minutes)
xx:17 (44 minutes or 41 with a change at Slough)
xx:32 (44 minutes)
xx:47 (only quoting 40 minutes with a change at Slough)

I suppose it makes sense for the TfL services to follow the faster GWR ones.

Once the central London section opens in 202?, it looks as if catching the GWR service and changing at Hayes, Ealing or Paddington will give faster journey times than the all stations.

matt_world2004 · 25 Sep 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
I checked the off peak services from Maidenhead for 17th December.

xx:05 is the TfL nearly all stations, taking 42 minutes
xx:26 is the GWR from Didcot, taking 35 minutes, calling at Slough, West Drayton, Hayes and Ealing
You can also change at Slough to a non-stop from Oxford (800/802?) taking 28 minutes including change of platform at Slough
xx:35 is the other Tfl taking 42 minutes
xx:53 is the other GWR, again with the option of changing to a non-stop at Slough.

Sensibly most of the service on the Marlow branch runs five or six minutes earlier, so as to connect with the xx:26 at Maidenhead and also the faster GWRs out of Paddington in the opposite direction.

The current service from Maidenhead is

xx:02 (44 minutes)
xx:17 (44 minutes or 41 with a change at Slough)
xx:32 (44 minutes)
xx:47 (only quoting 40 minutes with a change at Slough)

I suppose it makes sense for the TfL services to follow the faster GWR ones.

Once the central London section opens in 202?, it looks as if catching the GWR service and changing at Hayes, Ealing or Paddington will give faster journey times than the all stations.

You will be almost certainly be better changing at Ealing Broadway station when the core opens. As some crossrail trains will skip stop Hayes so there is a higher frequency from Ealing Broadway (12tph) I believe compared to 10tph from Hayes.

Acton1991 · 26 Sep 2019

Looks like there's no confirmation of Oyster/Contactless being available beyond West Drayton from December - nothing on the maps included in the new timetable, and TFL Rail not confirming on Twitter - https://twitter.com/TfLRail/status/1176530541958639616. Thoughts?

JonathanH · 26 Sep 2019

harleyilott said:
Looks like there's no confirmation of Oyster/Contactless being available beyond West Drayton from December - nothing on the maps included in the new timetable, and TFL Rail not confirming on Twitter - https://twitter.com/TfLRail/status/1176530541958639616. Thoughts?

The last news on that in T&R update 118 was that Oyster might not go all the way to Reading but it was still under discussion.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/593053/response/1410169/attach/html/3/TRU118 Redacted.pdf.html

Plenty of discussion here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tensions-confirmed.177646/page-9#post-4174075

I'd have some sympathy for the operators not extending in to Reading given the level of fares that will need to be charged (e.g. £25-30 peak single from Reading to London, £35+ peak single from Reading to Gatwick), the current levels of charge within London and how much people need to hold in credit on Oyster cards.

See also the news in this link - no Oyster beyond West Drayton, just Contactless
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfl-rail-to-reading-no-railcards.192696/

TfL Rail Paddington to Reading December 2019

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