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Class 345 progress

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simple simon

simple simon

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700007 said:
Hopefully in the next few weeks if all goes well.


Shortly both sides of the hour should be a 9-car if I have it right, but it needs to accumulate enough fault-free mileage before they choose to do that.
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Is it still just the one 9-car train, and only after 19:48?
Simon
 
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kevin_roche

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hwl said:
On "proper" full current spec ETCS units all the signalling interactions have to go via the ETCS computer including the Siemens Trainguard CBTC, AWS and TPWS which all have new plug in modules known as Specific Transmission Modules* (STM) rather than directly between the specific on train and off train equipment that happened historically as ETCS needs to know which system is being used at all times and with the ETCS computer directing what the TMS does. Hence 7 car has been set up as not having the ETCS computer in the middle of everything but 9 car has. This is also the first time Siemens has had a TrainguardMT STM installation layered on top of ETCS rather than directly as on previous installations.

* e.g this is the TPWS/AWS one: https://www.morssmitt.com/products/...tem-tpws-and-specific-transmission-module-stm
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Until recently close headway testing has been going on in the tunnels with the CBTC signalling on the train running is Standalone mode.

At the TfL Board Meeting yesterday there was a mention that Close Headway testing with 4 trains was now, as of last weekend, being undertaken in the central section without the ETCS software disabled.
 
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JonathanH

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345035 has just turned up at Hayes & Harlington for the 1748 service to Paddington.

Looks like 1448 from Hayes didn't run - diagram resumed from 1617 from Paddington.
 
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JonathanH

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I note that the 7 for 9 car swap at Hayes is still scheduled for next week so not confident to go 9-car at Paddington all day weekdays just yet.
 
J-2739

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Is there any videos online of the 9 car units in service?

It would be interesting to see how they function compared to the 7 car variant.
 
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JonathanH

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J-2739 said:
Is there any videos online of the 9 car units in service?

It would be interesting to see how they function compared to the 7 car variant.
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There is no discernable difference between travelling on a 7-car or 9-car unit - maybe you get a sense that the driver is further away of you are at the back of the train. What are you expecting? There is nothing special about the 3404xx or 3406xx coach.

Maybe Geoff Marshall ought to be encouraged to go out and do a video of the 'Hayes changeover' before it finishes.

It is possible that a Bombardier fitter is still needed when a 9-car is operating. There are still Bombardier staff doing checks on 710s at Gospel Oak and Barking during their layovers.
 
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kevin_roche

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JonathanH said:
It is possible that a Bombardier fitter is still needed when a 9-car is operating. There are still Bombardier staff doing checks on 710s at Gospel Oak and Barking during their layovers.
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There was a problem with ETCS Software resets which had to be done when the train turned around. It was reported in the last published Jacobs report. Unfortunatly there hasn't been a report since June so I have no idea if it fixed yet, but I believe it was one of the issues stopping the 9 car trains being used and was supposed to be fixed before they went into passenger service. Maybe they changed their minds.

Edit: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-reports-period-2-2019.pdf Page 32 Section 6.2
 
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vanillasplash

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JonathanH said:
There is no discernable difference between travelling on a 7-car or 9-car unit - maybe you get a sense that the driver is further away of you are at the back of the train. What are you expecting? There is nothing special about the 3404xx or 3406xx coach.

Maybe Geoff Marshall ought to be encouraged to go out and do a video of the 'Hayes changeover' before it finishes.

It is possible that a Bombardier fitter is still needed when a 9-car is operating. There are still Bombardier staff doing checks on 710s at Gospel Oak and Barking during their layovers.
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Well I'd say the speed in which a 9 car enters along platform would be different to a 7 car, 9 also looks way longer with the rear leaving the platform quite a bit faster than a 7 car. Does anyone know if Tfl rail trains will come to berkshire (slough, maidenhead) before elizabeth line does?? because past maidenhead most stations are run by them
 
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swt_passenger

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vanillasplash said:
Does anyone know if Tfl rail trains will come to berkshire (slough, maidenhead) before elizabeth line does?? because past maidenhead most stations are run by them
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TfL Rail take over 2 tph Paddington to Reading from Dec 15th this year using 345s, as has been widely discussed for about 3 months.
 
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vanillasplash

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swt_passenger said:
TfL Rail take over 2 tph Paddington to Reading from Dec 15th this year using 345s, as has been widely discussed for about 3 months.
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Oh okay, does that mean when the 345's are able to run to heathrow they will go to Terminal 5 under the Tfl rail brand for the time being?
 
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matt_world2004

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vanillasplash said:
Oh okay, does that mean when the 345's are able to run to heathrow they will go to Terminal 5 under the Tfl rail brand for the time being?
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They wont run to terminal 5 until after the core has opened but the terminal 4 services will be tfl Rail branded.
 
kevin_roche

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vanillasplash said:
Oh okay, does that mean when the 345's are able to run to heathrow they will go to Terminal 5 under the Tfl rail brand for the time being?
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That question has not been resolved here yet. I think they may have to wait for ETCS to be working in order to have the available paths to Paddington. At the moment the plan appears to be that they will use TPWS+ up to airport junction and ETCS between there and the airport. Although Network rail plans to have ETCS installed all the way to Paddington by Easter 2020 it seem that Crossrail are planning to go with TPWS for the initial 345 services.
 
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Roger B

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Sorry if this questions been asked before, but which sets have operated as 7-cars to date, and have 001 and/or 004 ever operated as 7-car sets. Many thanks
 
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700007

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Roger B said:
Sorry if this questions been asked before, but which sets have operated as 7-cars to date, and have 001 and/or 004 ever operated as 7-car sets. Many thanks
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Current 7 cars are:
002, 003, 005-017, 022, 029

001 is not in service and will be a 9 car
002 has never been in service
004 has never been in service
Both 002 and 004 I believe will be 9 cars
 
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33021

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Roger B said:
Sorry if this questions been asked before, but which sets have operated as 7-cars to date, and have 001 and/or 004 ever operated as 7-car sets. Many thanks
Click to expand...
7 car passenger = 3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,22,29,39
 
reddragon

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There were several 7-cars out west today, all seemed to be latter unplanned 7-car units, such as 039 & 029, even on the Reading runs.

Does this mean the TfL are thinking of starting services in the west as 7-car and changing them over later?
 
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JonathanH

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reddragon said:
There were several 7-cars out west today, all seemed to be latter unplanned 7-car units, such as 039 & 029, even on the Reading runs.

Does this mean the TfL are thinking of starting services in the west as 7-car and changing them over later?
Click to expand...

Wasn't it suggested that the extra 7-car conversions are a fallback measure in case the 9-car software issues aren't fixed in time for December? Saturday was two 9-cars working, Sunday one - the evening Hayes changeover is still happening each weekday.
 
kevin_roche

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reddragon said:
There were several 7-cars out west today, all seemed to be latter unplanned 7-car units, such as 039 & 029, even on the Reading runs.

Does this mean the TfL are thinking of starting services in the west as 7-car and changing them over later?
Click to expand...

Using 7 car trains is the backup plan. If the software works and passes its tests they will use 9 car trains. They have been testing the 9 car trains on the route to Hayes & Harlington at evenings and weekends but with some failures.
 
Siemens Staines

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In case it is of any interest the Hayes service this evening was

345039 2018 Hayes & Harlington - Paddington
345037 2017 Paddington - Hayes & Harlington
 
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hwl

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kevin_roche said:
That question has not been resolved here yet. I think they may have to wait for ETCS to be working in order to have the available paths to Paddington. At the moment the plan appears to be that they will use TPWS+ up to airport junction and ETCS between there and the airport. Although Network rail plans to have ETCS installed all the way to Paddington by Easter 2020 it seem that Crossrail are planning to go with TPWS for the initial 345 services.
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As covered numerous times (I.e. was resolved a long time ago hence doesn't come up in discussions) there isn't the platform capacity at Paddington to add the T5 and other some other services above the current service level till through running to the core happens.

The H&H services are a temporary measure till the 9 car 345s can run through to T4 and those will be in TfL rail branding.

The future 2tph crossrail T5services were a late change from the 2 tph peak only West Drayton turnback services that were originally planned.
 
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mic505

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Are the 2tph H&H services extended to Reading in the peaks only, with the 2tph Reading-Paddington stoppers
from December 15th, this year? Can someone confirm please?
 
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hwl

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mic505 said:
Are the 2tph H&H services extended to Reading in the peaks only, with the 2tph Reading-Paddington stoppers
from December 15th, this year? Can someone confirm please?
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Read the post above yours...

No - the H&H services are the additional 2 tph to T4 that can't go to T4 unit the 345s can get to Heathrow. The initial Reading services are a straight swap for the GWR services but with diesel padding removed from the timetable.
 
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