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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Mikey C

Mikey C

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Eyersey468 said:
I quite like the E200s, the main problem with them in my experience is how rattly they got after only a short time on the road. That said the MMC version is much better in that regard.
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I regularly use 10 year old London E200s and while they are slightly rattly, I don't find them unacceptable, unlike say many Solos
 
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Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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The early E300s (05 plate) and even the later E200s (09/59 plate) were absolutely terrible buses. Rattly, noisy, loud, with a rubbish seating layout. But they were bought in quantity because a) Stagecoach and b) price. The older E400s are pretty shonky too.

Wright made good solid buses- even the 51-plate Eclipse Geminis are still going strong- but were losing market share to those who were cheaper. Go, for instance, switched to Versas purely on price and Arriva even tried the Temsa Avenue. So the Streetlite was a partly a response to that and partly built to compete with the Solo too.

So of course Wright reduced build quality, if operators were buying Temsa bloody Avenues that told them operators wanted cheap not good. I suppose the problem is Wright always did good quality, so mediocrity was not accepted, especially by their biggest customer First (who, to their credit, never went down the cheap crappy lightweight route).

I don't really get the gushing over the E200 MMC mind, it's not exactly a luxury bus.
 
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Eyersey468

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Arctic Troll said:
The early E300s (05 plate) and even the later E200s (09/59 plate) were absolutely terrible buses. Rattly, noisy, loud, with a rubbish seating layout. But they were bought in quantity because a) Stagecoach and b) price. The older E400s are pretty shonky too.

Wright made good solid buses- even the 51-plate Eclipse Geminis are still going strong- but were losing market share to those who were cheaper. Go, for instance, switched to Versas purely on price and Arriva even tried the Temsa Avenue. So the Streetlite was a partly a response to that and partly built to compete with the Solo too.

So of course Wright reduced build quality, if operators were buying Temsa bloody Avenues that told them operators wanted cheap not good. I suppose the problem is Wright always did good quality, so mediocrity was not accepted, especially by their biggest customer First (who, to their credit, never went down the cheap crappy lightweight route).

I don't really get the gushing over the E200 MMC mind, it's not exactly a luxury bus.
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I agree about the older Wright's being good quality, the 05, 55 and 06 reg Geminis that we operate are good vehicles, hardly any rattles etc at all.
 
TheGrandWazoo

TheGrandWazoo

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Arctic Troll said:
The early E300s (05 plate) and even the later E200s (09/59 plate) were absolutely terrible buses. Rattly, noisy, loud, with a rubbish seating layout. But they were bought in quantity because a) Stagecoach and b) price. The older E400s are pretty shonky too.

Wright made good solid buses- even the 51-plate Eclipse Geminis are still going strong- but were losing market share to those who were cheaper. Go, for instance, switched to Versas purely on price and Arriva even tried the Temsa Avenue. So the Streetlite was a partly a response to that and partly built to compete with the Solo too.

So of course Wright reduced build quality, if operators were buying Temsa bloody Avenues that told them operators wanted cheap not good. I suppose the problem is Wright always did good quality, so mediocrity was not accepted, especially by their biggest customer First (who, to their credit, never went down the cheap crappy lightweight route).

I don't really get the gushing over the E200 MMC mind, it's not exactly a luxury bus.
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Depends what you means by Arriva "trying" the Temsa Avenue? Arriva Bus and Coach (the dealership arm) became the UK dealer for Temsa and that meant all models. The Temsa Avenue was one such vehicle. Obviously, it would've seemed odd had Arriva UK Bus not taken any so 20 were duly delivered to Arriva North East. Another seven were demo/stock models with one sent to First Bradford on extended loan but ultimately, no one would buy them so Arriva were forced to allocate the seven to Arriva North East.

I'd also say that First not going down the lightweight route isn't exactly right. They did have a batch of e300s for First Midland Red (and arguably, Badgerline were definitely one for lighter single deckers like the Lance/Verde).

The early e400s were pretty bad - I was shocked when I first travelled on a Stagecoach one in Wiltshire. They did, at least, get a handle on things.
 
F Great Eastern

F Great Eastern

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Eyersey468 said:
I agree about the older Wright's being good quality, the 05, 55 and 06 reg Geminis that we operate are good vehicles, hardly any rattles etc at all.
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Simple fact was though that Wright would have been dead even sooner if they kept building the Gemini 1 and the original Eclipse, as much as they were by far better build quality than anything that ADL could build, the simple fact was that they cost more, they weighed more and they guzzled more fuel.

One operator told me they believed that ADL deliberately went down the road of building cheap vehicles that were lightweight and fuel efficient as they didn't feel that they could compete with Wright on build quality alone so decided that they would attempt to take the market in a different direction.

Of course, for ADL to make a success of trying to change the direction of the market, they'd need to get a big customer to place a significant order for their new market changing product to help push the market in that direction. That's where having shareholders in common with a very large bus company comes in very handy.

The common shareholders of a large bus manufacturer and a large bus company has not had a positive impact on the industry, not at all as it allows them to use each others position for the leverage of keeping each other in such position and that is exactly what has happened.

The office of Fair Trading did say in 2004
The potential competition issue which arises in a transaction such as this is whether a combination of the upstream manufacturer of bus chassis and bodies and a downstream bus operator could foreclose competition
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Mikey C

Mikey C

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There must a reason why 90% (I'm guessing) of the single deckers in London over the last 25 years have been Darts then E200s, it's not as if Stagecoach dominate the London market, indeed they were absent for a few years

Genuinely don't get the E200 hate. I was on this evening, and it does its job perfectly (a 10 year old example too). I marginally prefer the Wright Cadet/SB120 but it's not as if the difference is massive
 
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Goldfish62

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Mikey C said:
There must a reason why 90% (I'm guessing) of the single deckers in London over the last 25 years have been Darts then E200s, it's not as if Stagecoach dominate the London market, indeed they were absent for a few years

Genuinely don't get the E200 hate. I was on this evening, and it does its job perfectly (a 10 year old example too). I marginally prefer the Wright Cadet/SB120 but it's not as if the difference is massive
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Because the Dart/E200 ticked the boxes for economy and reliability.

Examples of the competition:
SB120: unreliable
Citaro: reliable but expensive
 
Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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TheGrandWazoo said:
I'd also say that First not going down the lightweight route isn't exactly right.
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They also had a batch of Darts too, both the Mini Pointer and the full length one, to be fair, as well as brief dalliances with the Solo.

But they did seem to settle on Volvo/Wright, usually the B10BLE but with some B6LEs, neither of which are lightweight.

TheGrandWazoo said:
The early e400s were pretty bad - I was shocked when I first travelled on a Stagecoach one in Wiltshire. They did, at least, get a handle on things.
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I don't think they did until the MMC, really; even the 60-plate E400s up here with Stagecoach are pretty shoddy.
 
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Mitchell Hurd

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TheGrandWazoo said:
I remember a trip in early 2014 on the old Northampton to Bicester service which serves Silverstone (!) with a 63 plate e200 and it was very poor for body flexing and ride quality. This is what I don't get about people complaining about Streetlites when, TBH, the old e200 was as bad!

What IS different is that Wright did have an enviable reputation for build quality (the Cadet on the SB120 was a good machine among many others) but the Eclipse signalled a bit of a shift to a lighter, less robust feel and then the Streetlite was a much greater leap. Meanwhile, ADL were producing not great e200s/e300s (and even some e400s are lousy) but have really moved forward with the e200mmc. ADL seem to have got the quality/lightweight conundrum tackled (if not solved) better than Wright have.
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The Scania E300's were the best vehicles on the routes to and from Northampton and Bicester I think. It's a pity this didn't continue - probably because of low passenger usage.
 
Jordan Adam

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Scania/E300s are awful, slow as hell and struggle to maintain 30MPH on 50 limit roads where old E200s would manage fine! Not to mention the rear most row of seats offer poor head room and no windows.
 
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Mwanesh

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Jordan Adam said:
Scania/E300s are awful, slow as hell and struggle to maintain 30MPH on 50 limit roads where old E200s would manage fine! Not to mention the rear most row of seats offer poor head room and no windows.
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The ones in the Welsh Valleys are ok. They are not slow either.. They get hammered on the X4 and X3. It just depends on how they are set up.
 
Jordan Adam

Jordan Adam

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Mwanesh said:
The ones in the Welsh Valleys are ok. They are not slow either.. They get hammered on the X4 and X3. It just depends on how they are set up.
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All the examples at North Scotland are just pathetic! Not good at stopping either as the brakes like to catch fire on occasion.
 
ClydeCoaster

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Mwanesh said:
The ones in the Welsh Valleys are ok. They are not slow either.. They get hammered on the X4 and X3. It just depends on how they are set up.
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Yep, got to say the Western ones on the 585 can fairly floor it and some used to be on the motorway express services to Glasgow, so must be how they’re set up.
 
7522

7522

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Is there any update on the Volvo B8RLE with ADL bodywork. I remember reading about the news on Lothians website but it was quickly removed. Is this product still happening?
 
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Bornin1980s

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I've noticed that the Arriva fleet in my area seems to be largely made up of 10 year old Wright single dekkers on VDL running gear. Now that Wrighbus is gone, what are Arriva buying right now?
 
Alexbus12

Alexbus12

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I do wonder if the market for Metrodeckers opens up now. I've not had the chance to ride one yet, but one thing I've noticed is the long waiting time between order and delivery. How long have reading been waiting now!?
 
F Great Eastern

F Great Eastern

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Alexbus12 said:
I do wonder if the market for Metrodeckers opens up now. I've not had the chance to ride one yet, but one thing I've noticed is the long waiting time between order and delivery. How long have reading been waiting now!?
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Doubt it, the biggest beneficiary will be MCV for customers who like to order on Volvo Chassis.
 
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