43096
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Actually you can blame the stock - see this month’s Modern Railways for the details. Why are Siemens releasing a software patch if that’s not the case?
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Great Northern 313 Withdrawals
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Failed Unit
Established Member
The previous poster has covered it. But the power cut caused the initial problem. It happens. Poor design of the train turned it into a major incident. To me it is like have a fuse blow and making it impossible to change the fuse. It should be possible to reboot the train without sending a technician with a laptop out. That is the joys of the 313. Simple to fix.
Suggestion elsewhere of one pair ending tonight, one tomorrow and one on Monday. That presumably means the pair into Hornsey tonight don't come out again, one of the two pairs outberthed tonight ends at Hornsey tomorrow and the other is in place for a Hornsey finish on Monday.
Southern Dvr
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Totally agree, one of the things we are now finding with the railway is that when the going gets tough the preferred reaction is to just down tools and withdraw. rolling stock that requires a fitter to reboot it, crews not signing diversionary routes and various other things that have been complained about in finitum here before.
keeping it simple seems ironically to be too difficult!
keeping it simple seems ironically to be too difficult!
notverydeep
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Perhaps my last opportunity for a homeward journey on 313059 leading 313052 on 2V36 1832 Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City. Rather less spirited than the last two mornings with the leading car losing its footing pulling away from several stations, especially Alexandra Palace. A 5 late start now 9 minutes adrift at Brookmans Park. No flats yet, but with only a few days left there is no prospect of a visit to the wheel lathe for this pair...
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class387
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Would it therefore be correct that the only diagram on Monday will be HE71 (starts Hertford, finishes Hornsey), and hence the last GN 313 should be the 2333 Hertford North to Moorgate on Monday night?
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Isn't the fix merely allowing a driver to reset the train rather than requiring a fitter to attend? The shutdown was as intended and the fault still lies with the electrical supply issue.
Failed Unit
Established Member
maybe. Put it was very poor design that turned it into a major incident. Surely that is without a doubt. Siemens must think so or they wouldn’t be re-writing the software.
I hope Siemens get a big bill for all the delay minutes their poor software caused.
43096
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Merely?! A fix that would have alleviated a total screw up of the ECML and MML, causing massive delays to thousands of people.
Dave W
Member
Just registered but been lurking for quite some time...
Also had what will likely be my final runs on one from Hornsey to Gordon Hill and back. The outbound was a very standard journey with 037+051, a good all stopper run. Deliberately timed my appointment to come back on the 1750 off Gordon Hill which runs fast to Ally Pally... 052+059 arrived into the bay in the meantime, just before 039+061 appeared for the semi-fast run.
In a similar vein, the driver was having to battle the units a bit as far as Winchmore Hill in damp and windy conditions - then she really got them to open up and we had a great run the rest of the way to the Palace. All in all, a fine last run.
Also had what will likely be my final runs on one from Hornsey to Gordon Hill and back. The outbound was a very standard journey with 037+051, a good all stopper run. Deliberately timed my appointment to come back on the 1750 off Gordon Hill which runs fast to Ally Pally... 052+059 arrived into the bay in the meantime, just before 039+061 appeared for the semi-fast run.
In a similar vein, the driver was having to battle the units a bit as far as Winchmore Hill in damp and windy conditions - then she really got them to open up and we had a great run the rest of the way to the Palace. All in all, a fine last run.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I must admit the logic is strange for some people.
back to my fuse analogy. It is to protect the equipment. You get a power surge. It blows the fuse. Job done and it isn’t the fault of the equipment. However you would not be happy if you needed someone to visit your house to change the fuse.
I think I would be more upset with the supplier of the equipment for preventing me from changing the safety device rather than the electric company for the initial fault. After all why have a safety feature if you never expect to use it and surely good design is the ability to reset it
The grid fluctuates, that is why the train shuts down. I can’t comprehend why other posters think it is a good design to not enable the driver to reset it. Likewise why it is the national grids fault a poor train design caused hours of delay on a simple fault.
Not knowing the reasons behind the software change that prevented drivers from being able to clear the fault that they encountered, it is impossible to say whether it was right or not for a driver to be able to reset this specific fault, I don't know 700 traction systems, but I do know that some faults and safety interlocks you do not want a driver to be able to reset/override to protect the equipment if there is a real fault with the equipment or not. The frequency drop was the largest in recent history and the frequency trigger was not set at the correct value. Had one or another of these situations not occurred there would not have been the disruption to the rail network. If this fault had triggered on a single unit and the parameters had been set correctly I'm sure that a fitter would have wanted to attend the unit to ensure it was safe to drive. I know of traction inverters blowing up on 377's because a driver decided to override a system and put a faulty traction unit online. There are reasons why drivers can do some things and fitters have to do other things. it's a bit like saying a Driver needs to be able to replace the compressor fuse on a 313 in case it fails in service, it simply wouldn't happen. The unit would get rescued and it would be dragged to depot to be inspected by a fitter who is competent to carry out the job.
No it is multi-change fix:
a) driver reset reinstated ("accidentally" removed - sorted)
b) traction drive power feed shut off frequency should have been and was set to 49Hz but they also set the auxiliary supply feed cut off to 49Hz too when it should have been set to 48.5Hz. (sorted) This would have prevented many further issues as the switch over to battery would never have occurred...
c) auto reset when frequency returns above 49.5Hz (to be rolled out) to reduce any need for battery disconnect resets by driver or fitter.
andystock22
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Based on my personal experience the weekday service has improved significantly over the past few weeks since the vast majority of services are now operated by the class 717s.
This week all 10 train journeys on time (3 morning journeys were on 700s into Kings Cross).
This week all 10 train journeys on time (3 morning journeys were on 700s into Kings Cross).
Failed Unit
Established Member
New rolling stock should be an improvement on what it replaces. You know. More reliable not less....
functional not with useless gimmicks like WiFi. (Although the air-conditioning is nice it I prefer a train that gets me from a-b reliably)
According to TRUST on Saturday 28th September there are two sets of 313s out all day:
0958 MOG to WGC is 052/059. Ends the day at WGC after working 2358 ex MOG.
1043 MOG to WAS is 048/049. Ends the day at HFN after working the 0110 ex KGX
0958 MOG to WGC is 052/059. Ends the day at WGC after working 2358 ex MOG.
1043 MOG to WAS is 048/049. Ends the day at HFN after working the 0110 ex KGX
daniel1234321
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Yep, you're right. Just been past HFN and 037/051 are in the sidings.
Think 037+051 are going to Hornsey on https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G45087/2019/09/28/advanced so only one pair at HFN tonight.
Think 037+051 are going to Hornsey on https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G45087/2019/09/28/advanced so only one pair at HFN tonight.
Milo T.K
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What's the running diagrams for today for the 313s
See post 524, the pair on the Welwyn route repeat every two hours, on the Watton route they repeat every 2.5 hours with the XX13 from Moorgate running through to Stevenage.
daniel1234321
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The Stevenage/Watton at Stone one's cancelled
class387
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What would this mean for Monday's service?
Class315
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I don't believe it is as its currently running as 2J30 17:05 Watton - Moorgate.
daniel1234321
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Ah, I think it was cancelled in advance then un-cancelled. 313049/048. On it now at 1928 SVG-MOG.
daniel1234321
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What will the diagrams be tomorrow?
Simon Poole
Member
Another scrap move for this Monday
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03824/2019/09/30/advanced
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03824/2019/09/30/advanced
andystock22
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I was about to ask the same. All my 4 train rides has been on 717s today.
I want to do one last ride on the old rattlers!
Definitely rattling tonight as the 313 service forming the 2258 WGC to Moorgate crawled in and crawled out late last night. Possibly still to reach Moorgate now!!
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