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Memories of the Golden Arrow and Night Ferry

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Czesziafan

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The Golden Arrow and the Night Ferry were the 2 prestige international services operated by the SR and BR(S), ending in 1972 and 1980 respectively. They have been the subject of numerous books and articles over the years. But does anyone have any memories of having travelled on these 2 express services to the continent?
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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Again, I did not get to travel on either of these trains, but do remember seeing the CIWL carriages by the shed at London Victoria Railway Station.
 

citycat

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Hello, it's me again with more childhood memories.

When we weren't going to Poland by train, we would go to the South of France for our summer holiday and we would go on the Golden Arrow on the outbound journey and the Night Ferry on the inbound. However, this was after 1972 when the Pullman cars had gone. The service still ran under the name of the Golden Arrow, but it was just a BR southern unit in blue and grey with an enhanced First Class service. I say unit but I could swear we had a class 71 on the front. Unfortunately, I just can't remember for sure, so don't quote me on that. We held 2nd class boxes and FIP coupons but I remember my dad blagged us into First Class once (he recognised the train guard - an ex freight guard from Willesden who had transferred to the Southern) so we got into the First class where we had sandwiches, tea and cake served on the way down to Dover Marine.

I think the ferry across to Calais was the Invicta.

At Calais Maritime, we boarded the French boat train, still running as La Fleche d'Or I believe. SNCF green carriages with sort of oval windows and inward opening doors that I had never seen before. I don't remember any Pullmans so they must have gone too. The haulage I seem to remember was a pair of BB67400's leaving Calais. My dad knew that I always liked to see the engine change at Amiens, so we would walk down the platform at Amiens just in time to see the diesels come off, and the electric loco in the form of a BB9200 buffer onto the train for the run to Paris Gare du Nord.

At Paris, we would take the metro with all our cases over to the Gare de Lyon, and join the overnight Cote d'Azur express, travelling in couchettes to our holiday destination in Juan les Pins. The train would leave at 20:42 and the CIWL all sleeping car Blue train would follow from the adjacent platform three minutes behind us, leaving at 20:45.

On the inbound journey, we would take a day train from Juan les Pins to Paris. Initially, green or green/grey SNCF coaching stock, but at some point in the 70's, the new Corail stock was introduced and we travelled in those. I remember the journey from Juan les Pins to Paris took all day and seemed to last forever. At Paris, we would once again take the metro over to the Gare du Nord to join the Night Ferry. We weren't well off enough or had the correct coupons to travel in the CIWL sleeping cars at the front of the train, so we had to slum it in the second class seats. At Lille where the train reversed, I would watch with dad as the engine swap took place (can't remember what it was or whether it was diesel or electric?). An Electric I think.

When we got to Dunkerque Ville, a BB66000 shunting loco would come on to take the train through the docks of Dunkerque to the maritime station and the train ferry. I promised my dad I wouldn't get off so would watch the engine swap through the gangway doors, the sleeping cars and their green luggage fourgons at the rear of the train. Although I promised dad not to get off, I always found the journey from Ville to the docks the most exciting bit so I would keep the inward passenger door open and stand on the step as the train made the several kilometre journey to the docks at walking pace. What I remember most about this portion of the journey were the screeching of the wheel flanges against the rail. As any rail enthusiast will know, the singing rails can almost sound like music and it sounded fantastic echoing off the various dock warehouses and it was great to be standing on that step, hanging on tight to the handrails, and listening to the train traversing the docks of Dunkerque in the early hours. Luckily there was no train guard to tell me off.

At Dunkerque Maritime (although I don't think it was called Maritime), we would all pile off the train to go through passports and customs. The ferry I think was the MV St Germain but I'm not sure when it stopped running so I may be mistaken in my memories. While my parents went off to the saloon, I would dash upstairs to the upper deck to watch the sleeping cars being loaded onto the train deck below. It was great standing on the deck and watching the cars being shunted on, again with the accompanying wheel flange screeching, and then hearing the bogies on each carriage thump as they left the loading bridge and crossed the small gap onto the ferry train deck. I don't know how any of those passengers got any sleep during the loading process.

Once the sleeping cars and fourgons were loaded, the ferry would cast off and I would remain on deck to watch as the ferry had to navigate a lock from the basin to the open sea. It was all really exciting stuff in those days to watch as a child. At Dover, it was the same regime with the passports and customs. My dad would normally be a bit nervous as he would occasionally buy over the duty free limit. He would sometimes put a bottle of Dimple or Johnnie Walker whisky into my backpack, and send me on to walk ahead or to walk near another family so customs would hopefully not stop an innocent looking schoolboy. I have to say we had 100% success rate with this ruse, sorry HM customs.

The boat train to London Victoria I believe was just an ordinary BR blue & grey unit. I don't remember seeing the sleeping cars again so they may have run as a separate train?

In later years, we did not go via Calais or return on the Night Ferry. We started to go to Italy so on the outbound we would travel via Folkestone to Boulogne, then we would join the SNCF green/grey liveried Boulogne to Roma/Napoli couchette cars up to Paris Nord, and then the couchette cars would be taken around the Petite Ceinture to the Gare de Lyon with a BB66000 at the head. We would then be shunted over onto an overnight service to Italy where we would get off at Genoa Piazza Principe the next morning and take a FS grey coaching stock local along the coast to Alassio on the Italian Riviera. Same again for the reverse journey.

Hope this all helps.
 
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coppercapped

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In 1958 or 1959 I made my first ever journey to foreign parts - a nine or ten day long trip to Rome with a school party. We travelled by a steam hauled Golden Arrow, which must have also included ordinary second or third class coaches by then, from Victoria to Folkestone and then by ferry to Calais. I have no great memories of this part of the journey - possibly because it was like any other railway journey in the UK, but the onward sections, starting with the 'Train CB' (Calais-Bâle) overnight in compartment coaches to a breakfast waiting for us in Bâle/Basel at about 6am still stick in my mind.

The connecting train took us over the Gotthard - and as the highest thing I had seen until then was Beachy Head - this was stunning. We changed trains again in Milan, and on the neighbouring platform was the Settebello emu with an observation saloon at the front with the driver perched in a little cabin above and behind on the roof (wow!) and finally arrived in Roma Termini at about 9pm, some 38 hours from Reading.

The long corridors of the youth hostel rocked gently from side to side for a day or so longer until we had got our land legs again...

Fun when one is fourteen - but flying really does tick all the boxes for me now!
 
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citycat

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Quite so. :lol:

None of these problems would have raised their heads if people didn't want/need/have to travel about...!

It was much better in the days when you could only take a maximum of £25 sterling out of the country at anyone time, or you had to save for several years to buy a seat on a BOAC jet. It stopped people having fancy ideas about travelling to the Continent, lol.
 
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citycat

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D890874A-7AE8-4A01-B420-15D8E2A31843.jpeg An image of a BB9200 that used to take over at Amiens for the run up to Paris.

You can just see that the first carriage has the oval windows I was talking about.
 

citycat

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B772A8DE-07B9-4FA6-8CC6-BB5BDD9BB06D.jpeg SNCF BB66000 that would haul the Night Ferry from Dunkerque Ville to the docks, and in later years the Italian couchettes from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon in Paris around the Petite Ceinture.
 

30907

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I travelled to and from Paris in 1969 on the Arrow (second class, and I don't remember being on the hauled set...). I recall a pair of BB66 plus generator car on the train from Calais, and 4-a-side compartments with shiny green seats.
Used the Ferry connection once only, in summer 1972, in seats (and I remember paying for a berth in the saloon on the ferry so I could catch up on sleep.
 

70014IronDuke

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Hello, it's me again with more childhood memories.

When we weren't going to Poland by train, we would go to the South of France for our summer holiday and we would go on the Golden Arrow on the outbound journey and the Night Ferry on the inbound. However, this was after 1972 when the Pullman cars had gone. The service still ran under the name of the Golden Arrow, but it was just a BR southern unit in blue and grey with an enhanced First Class service. I say unit but I could swear we had a class 71 on the front. Unfortunately, I just can't remember for sure, so don't quote me on that. ...

I can't say for certain, but I'd wager it had been an EMU for at least a year or two by 1972.

... What I remember most about this portion of the journey were the screeching of the wheel flanges against the rail. As any rail enthusiast will know, the singing rails can almost sound like music and it sounded fantastic echoing off the various dock warehouses and it was great to be standing on that step, hanging on tight to the handrails, and listening to the train traversing the docks of Dunkerque in the early hours. Luckily there was no train guard to tell me off.

I agree, there was an awful lot of squealing throught the docks.


At Dunkerque Maritime (although I don't think it was called Maritime)
It was.
 

Czesziafan

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View attachment 68929 An image of a BB9200 that used to take over at Amiens for the run up to Paris.

You can just see that the first carriage has the oval windows I was talking about.

I suspect that the loco on the Calais-Amiens and Lille -Paris sectors was a BB16000 class. which were 25KV whilst he 9200 class only operated on the 1500v dc system south of Paris. They are easily confused as they looked virtually identical.
 

70014IronDuke

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The Golden Arrow and the Night Ferry were the 2 prestige international services operated by the SR and BR(S), ending in 1972 and 1980 respectively. They have been the subject of numerous books and articles over the years. But does anyone have any memories of having travelled on these 2 express services to the continent?

If anyone comes on here from the Central or SW Sections they will soon remind you that there were also the "Brighton Belle", "Atlantic Coast Express", "Royal Wessex" and the "Bournemouth Belle" among the prestige trains on SR metals.

EDIT - Ooops, sorry. You do write "international" services. Even the ACE wasn't one of those, despite the hopes of more extreme Cornsishfolk :)

I am sure I saw the Golden Arrow from around 1955 - 58 numerous times, as we kids played while mums worked in the orchards, hopfields and farms between Headcorn and Pluckley. We certainly knew it was 'the train' of the day - but I can't really say I have any clear memories of it. Not my memory, but I do remember my dad telling stories about being in Pluckley box of an evening - this would have been in the 30s and 40s, they lived right next to the line at the time - and the signalman would pull off for the down Night Ferry and it would normally be double-headed with two Schools pounding down the track. (I don't think it was always, or even often two Schools, but that's what he remembered.)

When I first went to France in 1970 and maybe into 71, the Night Ferry was still hauled by Class 71s (I mean, the E50xx Bo-Bos, not sure about the class numbers) with Wagon-Lits sleepers. We paupers on free BR tickets never had the cash for the sleepers, of course, and anyway, we'd jump the train at Dunkergue Ville at some awful hour (about 05.15 IIRC) to change trains for Hazebrouck and the Calais line.

The outward trip was always fun (especially if one could practice one's French with a madamoiselle) but the return, if using the Night Ferry, was bloody misery getting turfed out bleary eyed at both Dunkerque and Dover. It was even worse if the crossing was rough. My first return trip, in November 1970, was so awful. I even kept puking on the quay at Dover. My travelling pal BB said I should have been smuggling some Duty-free that day, as I looked so awful the customs would never have stopped me. :)

EDIT. To add a kind of sociological comment. As a kid of 4-5 in 1957, I would watch the boat trains as if they were carrying people to another planet.

I mean, it never entered my head that one day I might actually TRAVEL on these trains and go ABROAD. It was only special folks, toffs (not that I knew that word) who did that. Yet 13-14 years later, I was passing those fields and farmhouses 4 or 5 times a year - but even then, in the early 70s, most folks at uni of my age had not left the UK. I could only do it because of my free BR tickets.
 
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Czesziafan

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Fascinating and very atmospheric stories of what was still a golden age of rail travel.

In the late 60's the Arrow was a rake of 1st class Pullmans built in 1951, by then in BR blue and grey with a few embellishments, and ordinary BR Mark 1 2nd class stock. Haulage was a class 71, or 73 if a 71 was unavailable. There was also an emu relief to the main service during the summer, formed of 4-CEP+4BEP+4CEP+MLV which also operated in the up direction. The Night Ferry was formed of SNCF fourgons (vans) + WL sleepers + BR Mark 1's including restaurant cars marshalled in the middle one of which had its couplings and gangways modified to be compatible with the WL stock. That also had a relief emu at peak times for seated passengers. In 1976 BR withdrew the mark 1 portion and seated passengers thenceforth had an emu to Dover.

Here is the SR carriage working notice for the Ferry in 1974
Night Ferry carrriage working notice 1974.jpeg
 

30907

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I can't say for certain, but I'd wager it had been an EMU for at least a year or two by 1972.
You lose :)
30 Sept 72 says Wikipedia - which accords with my memory, as I photographed the train at Shortlands using a camera bought less than a year earlier!

Wonderful to see the Ferry CWN - the seats portion went when the ferry berth was switched to Dunkerque Ouest, the crossing cut to 2.5 hours and arrival in Victoria accordingly before not after the high peak. ISTR the catering provision was cut too, but a BCK had to be retained.
 

70014IronDuke

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You lose :)
30 Sept 72 says Wikipedia - which accords with my memory, as I photographed the train at Shortlands using a camera bought less than a year earlier!
...
Oh, OK. That means I must have been on it with Cl 71 haulage and Mk 1s - but I can't remember that.
 

70014IronDuke

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My interest piqued, I decided to look on YouTube and found these


Something tells me the film was judiciously speeded up at around 1.00' - I mean, would an MN really be able to hit this speed so soon after leaving Victoria?

But even more intriguing is this short clip of William Shakespeare


which is simply wrong. I'm sure 30907 will come along soon to tell us why? he he he!
 
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I travelled on the last down 'Night Ferry' to Paris on 31/10/1980 - I had just reached the heady heights of MS1 so had free First Class continental tickets for the first time. I booked the sleeping berth in the Continental Ticket office at Manchester Piccadilly - in the bad old days of British Rail when the public could buy a train ticket to virtually anywhere in Europe (including behind the Iron Curtain). It was quite exciting on arrival at London Victoria to see 'NIGHT FERRY' - PARIS NORD / BRUXELLES MIDI on the Solari departure board and hear it announced. There was a modest send off with some minor TV star who I've forgotten and champagne. Class 33 haulage to Dover. I had expected it to be fully booked but there were a lot of free berths - too expensive for enthusiasts I guess.The Wagon Lits sleeping cars had been 'modernised' in the 1950s but were still quite grand - some were in original livery but others were in all-over blue with the SNCF logo. BR produced quite a nice souvenir brochure which I've still got somewhere, but with the inevitable plug about how it would still be all marvellous going forward. Nope.

It was quite a performance shunting and securing the sleeping cars on the ship - and I remember the 'drip trays' being placed under for the toilets. It took an age for the lock to be equalised with the sea to allow departure. It was possible to get off the sleeping cars on the ship - I had a nightcap in the bar which was all formica and plastic. There was a Sunday Times journalist who had been send to cover the story, who I had a couple of beers with - but he was clearly intent on staying up all night drinking, so 'I made my excuses and left'. I slept soundly, missing Dunkerque and the splitting at Hazebrouck, and woke up somewhere south of Arras speeding towards Paris. Breakfast was croissants and coffee.

There was no reception at Paris and it was depressing to watch the stock being shunted out for the last time. Paris was miserable, grey and gnawingly cold - so much for the 'City of Light'. It was also All Saints Day and virtually everywhere was shut. This was my first visit to Paris, but fortunately subsequent visits proved to be rather more enjoyable. I stayed at the Youth Hostel at Choisy-le-Roi a few stops out of Austerlitz on the PO main-line. This was hemmed in between the railway and the Seine, and gave an excellent view of all the trains - I was particularly taken with the RENFE Talgo services.

I returned home via Brussels and Ostend / Dover. Paris to Brussels was via Aulnoye and Mons - the classic main-line in pre-TGV days. I'm pleased to see some cross border services by this route have now been reinstated after many years of absence.
 

Spamcan81

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View attachment 68930 SNCF BB66000 that would haul the Night Ferry from Dunkerque Ville to the docks, and in later years the Italian couchettes from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon in Paris around the Petite Ceinture.

That looks very much like the loco + another one of the same class that hauled the overnight train from Boulogne to Basel on a school trip back on 1969.
 

Czesziafan

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Re the catering side in the UK. On the Ferry from 1947 SR vehicles were used until 1959 when they were replaced by BR Mark 1 restaurant cars. They were however staffed by Pullman under a contract between the SR and Pullman, by which Pullman paid BR a percentage on takings. The menus carried the Pullman crest and title, but the crockery and silverware were SR (marine pattern with the company house flag). This arrangement ended in 1963 when BR took over Pullman and the cars were staffed by BTH employees with standard BTHS branded tableware, menus etc. This in turn became British Rail Catering in 1966 until the catering vehicles were withdrawn.

The sleepers were staffed by Wagons Lits until the contract expired at the end of 1976, after which they were staffed by BR employees.

Pullman staff on the Arrow wore special badges for that service.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Fascinating to read all these memories, just one thing, according to the table on post 16, did only one carriage go to Brussels?
 

30907

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Fascinating to read all these memories, just one thing, according to the table on post 16, did only one carriage go to Brussels?
Normally, yes, but extras could be added if needed. Can't remember when it first ran, 1950s?
 

Struner

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An image of a BB9200 that used to take over at Amiens for the run up to Paris.

You can just see that the first carriage has the oval windows I was talking about.
The carriage would have been a voiture saucisson (i.e. sausage). Some 50+ were built. Google will show you some other photos.
The loco is clearly numbered BB-16001.
 

citycat

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The carriage would have been a voiture saucisson (i.e. sausage). Some 50+ were built. Google will show you some other photos.
The loco is clearly numbered BB-16001.

Again, I stand corrected. I was looking more for an image of the loco that I remembered. I didn’t realise there were different classes of the same loco for different voltages.

Thanks for the info. Voitures saucisson. Learn something new every day.
 
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Czesziafan

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Normally, yes, but extras could be added if needed. Can't remember when it first ran, 1950s?

The Brussels car was added in 1957. In the winter seasons 1967/8 and 1968/9 a through car also ran to Basle.
 

Czesziafan

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You lose :)
30 Sept 72 says Wikipedia - which accords with my memory, as I photographed the train at Shortlands using a camera bought less than a year earlier!

Wonderful to see the Ferry CWN - the seats portion went when the ferry berth was switched to Dunkerque Ouest, the crossing cut to 2.5 hours and arrival in Victoria accordingly before not after the high peak. ISTR the catering provision was cut too, but a BCK had to be retained.

The BCK was purely for the use of the SR guard.
 
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