Walking through 1st to get to Standard

trainophile · 29 Sep 2019

I was surprised at how many people seemingly deliberately board (and alight) at a 1st Class door then walk through to/from Standard coaches. This was on GWR on Friday, and happened at almost all the station stops. To be fair the coach arrangement on GWR can be a bit haphazard, with no particular order. However there's no real excuse when leaving the train.

However what really shocked me was the woman who casually picked up a Times off the pile on the luggage rack as she passed through. Nice little saving if she does that every day on her commute home!

I have also when sat in Standard on a Virgin train see people disappear and return with bottles of water from the 1st Class fridges. I know on the scale of things it's not a serious matter, but it's a bit cheeky isn't it?

RailUK Forums

VT 390 · 29 Sep 2019

I have noticed at some stations served by GWR people don't even spread down the platform so everyone boards through the first class carriages, this seams to happen a lot at Worcester Foregate Street when first class is NOT at the London end.

centraltrains · 29 Sep 2019

Sometimes it can be very necessary, such as when first class is in the centre of the train as per Class 350s to get to the non-broken toilet!

bionic · 29 Sep 2019

centraltrains said:
Sometimes it can be very necessary, such as when first class is in the centre of the train as per Class 350s to get to the non-broken toilet!

The layout on those units is crazy. They should just stick first at one end.

Ethano92 · 29 Sep 2019

This happens a lot on Thameslink, especially at Blackfriars and City Thameslink where the exits are at the very ends of platforms but it's also confusing because rear 1st class is always declassified and the front is sometimes declassified. PIS sometimes claims first isn't declassified on a sutton service... People not only walk through first, they also just use it as standard no matter what (as do I in all honesty)

Islineclear3_1 · 29 Sep 2019

In a haste to board, people will use the nearest available door and don't notice if it says "1st" on the door. Board quickly before the doors close.

Also "1st" is often poorly labelled on some stock and thus not always immediately obvious

Mag_seven · 29 Sep 2019

robert7111a said:
Also "1st" is often poorly labelled on some stock and thus not always immediately obvious

A lot of that has got to do with the privatised railway abolishing the internationally recognised yellow stripe on the top of the coach, so it wouldn't "spoil" their nice new livery.

Master29 · 29 Sep 2019

You can`t really blame people sometimes when you have the daft configuration on GWR with 5 car units on the West of England lines. Who knows where first class will be and people don`t realise they can`t walk through. Remember, these are fairly new trains. There are a few who take liberties however.

Master29 · 29 Sep 2019

Mag_seven said:
A lot of that has got to do with the privatised railway abolishing the internationally recognised yellow stripe on the top of the coach, so it wouldn't "spoil" their nice new livery.

To be honest those stripes would look pretty good on GWR green imo.

superalbs · 29 Sep 2019

On a GWR Class 800 that I was on in First Class last weekend, many people got on in in the First Class carriage, and then just stayed put. Although maybe that had something to do with them having reservations in this carriage. The guard didn't hesitate on throwing them out though, wondering if that's even allowed but okay...

VT 390 · 29 Sep 2019

superalbs said:
On a GWR Class 800 that I was on in First Class last weekend, many people got on in in the First Class carriage, and then just stayed put. Although maybe that had something to do with them having reservations in this carriage. The guard didn't hesitate on throwing them out though, wondering if that's even allowed but okay...

If they did not have 1st class tickets how could they have reservations in the carriage?

superalbs · 29 Sep 2019

VT 390 said:
If they did not have 1st class tickets how could they have reservations in the carriage?

Different formation. Should probably start a seperate thread now:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...st-class-with-a-standard-class-ticket.192841/

trainophile · 29 Sep 2019

Unless I am missing something, you can't even tell what the carriage letter is until you board, so from that point of view it's understandable. I still say they should at least exit from the door of the carriage they are in though.

One chap sat opposite us, and when the guard did a ticket check he said he would like to upgrade (it was a pretty busy but not packed train). However when he was told it would be £25 and not the £10 (weekend) rate he decided to move through after all. I saw him get a table seat in the next coach, so I don't blame him not forking out to stay put.

VT 390 · 29 Sep 2019

trainophile said:
Unless I am missing something, you can't even tell what the carriage letter is until you board, so from that point of view it's understandable. I still say they should at least exit from the door of the carriage they are in though.

One chap sat opposite us, and when the guard did a ticket check he said he would like to upgrade (it was a pretty busy but not packed train). However when he was told it would be £25 and not the £10 (weekend) rate he decided to move through after all. I saw him get a table seat in the next coach, so I don't blame him not forking out to stay put.

With GWR it depends if the screen on the outside of the train is working as when it is it clearly shows the carriage letter however most of the time I have travelled on them they are either blank or not working properly so you can't see any useful information.
Although I think that on GWR trains the white line at the top of the carriage is clear enougth to tell which carriages are first class from a distance.

Master29 · 29 Sep 2019

superalbs said:
On a GWR Class 800 that I was on in First Class last weekend, many people got on in in the First Class carriage, and then just stayed put. Although maybe that had something to do with them having reservations in this carriage. The guard didn't hesitate on throwing them out though, wondering if that's even allowed but okay...

Yes it is as they were still in a first class carriage.

VT 390 said:
With GWR it depends if the screen on the outside of the train is working as when it is it clearly shows the carriage letter however most of the time I have travelled on them they are either blank or not working properly so you can't see any useful information.
Although I think that on GWR trains the white line at the top of the carriage is clear enougth to tell which carriages are first class from a distance.

I disagree. I have difficulty seeing it and I am fairly long sighted and given GWR`s first class lottery of anywhere on the formation it becomes more difficult on some platforms. I know what carriages have the first class lettering on IET`s but an average Joe may not.

Failed Unit · 29 Sep 2019

robert7111a said:
In a haste to board, people will use the nearest available door and don't notice if it says "1st" on the door. Board quickly before the doors close.

Also "1st" is often poorly labelled on some stock and thus not always immediately obvious

GTRs 387s when introduced. They only difference was a slightly different seat cover.

they have improved their labelling.

LNER encourage cyclist to walk through first to decrease the dwell time at stations.

Lucan · 29 Sep 2019

This was not a problem when there were compartments with side corridors.

fgwrich · 29 Sep 2019

Mag_seven said:
A lot of that has got to do with the privatised railway abolishing the internationally recognised yellow stripe on the top of the coach, so it wouldn't "spoil" their nice new livery.

Indeed, while some TOCs way of identifying First Class has been better than others, GWRs thin silver strip is pretty poor. At least some kind of Yellow stripe, possibly even putting the doors in a different colour would have been a better bet (Bronze coloured for First, Standard Grey / silver for Standard?). Then again LNER's 800 effort of identifying First Class from the outside is as equally as poor. Yet TPE Flood the exterior with 1 stickers, SWR has bought back the yellow stripe and ScotRail has retained theirs.

I'd also agree about the haphazard nature of the GWR IEPs when running in pairs - First Class can be at either end, in the middle of one + rear of the other, or both together in the middle. It's certainly a noticeable problem at stations such as Reading, where the rather confusing stopping locations have seemingly made things worse - XX is in Coach Number 2, XX in coach number 4, XX in coach number 6, XX in coach number 10. Train formation ABCDE, KJIHGF etc.

Sporty60 · 29 Sep 2019

I sometimes board through first class as there are less passengers disembarking meaning that I can walk through to standard class and have first dibs at the unreserved seating.

Taunton · 29 Sep 2019

I believe The Times are provided to rail, airlines, etc at nil cost.

Coming on a LNER 225 from Newcastle to Kings Cross last week, the train was run in reverse formation, including departing Newcastle in the opposite direction and using the High Level Bridge. No information was given at any of the stations we stopped at that this was so, and passengers could be seen perplexed all now standing at the wrong end. I bet the first Standard coach was packed with people who had walked through.

GoneSouth · 29 Sep 2019

Mag_seven said:
A lot of that has got to do with the privatised railway abolishing the internationally recognised yellow stripe on the top of the coach, so it wouldn't "spoil" their nice new livery.

Agreed! No idea where 1st class is when boarding GWR and XC as the train pulls into the station. Sometimes the station announcements are accurate but I wouldn’t rely on them. Loved the thick yellow band at the top of the HSTs back in the 90s, very clear. Honestly I can’t understand why anyone would want to pay the ludicrous XC 1st fares anyway. They should just do away with it completely and increase capacity for the majority of standard class passengers.

GoneSouth · 29 Sep 2019

fgwrich said:
Indeed, while some TOCs way of identifying First Class has been better than others, GWRs thin silver strip is pretty poor. At least some kind of Yellow stripe, possibly even putting the doors in a different colour would have been a better bet (Bronze coloured for First, Standard Grey / silver for Standard?).

I maybe wrong, please correct me if so but don’t Grand Central have gold and silver coloured doors to distinguish first from standard on their trains? I wasn’t giving it my full attention but thought I’d seem this at Bradford Interchange once.

Skimpot flyer · 29 Sep 2019

Ethano92 said:
This happens a lot on Thameslink, especially at Blackfriars and City Thameslink where the exits are at the very ends of platforms but it's also confusing because rear 1st class is always declassified and the front is sometimes declassified. PIS sometimes claims first isn't declassified on a sutton service... People not only walk through first, they also just use it as standard no matter what (as do I in all honesty)

I’ve often noticed the same thing on a 700 departing from platforms 9-11 at Kings Cross, off-peak. People boarding at the last minute jump into the closest carriage, the declassified 1st, then walk through to the other carriages. It seems there is still a high percentage of off-peak travellers who have no idea they can sit there. From a selfish point of view, long may that state of affairs continue!

Birkonian · 29 Sep 2019

On Greater Anglia yesterday I was drinking a cup of tea at the buffet counter. I told the staff member that I was going to the toilet and would be back to finish my drink. I returned quickly because the toilet was engaged. The staff member recommended the toilet in the middle of 1st class. Didn't seem a problem to her.

Kite159 · 29 Sep 2019

Skimpot flyer said:
I’ve often noticed the same thing on a 700 departing from platforms 9-11 at Kings Cross, off-peak. People boarding at the last minute jump into the closest carriage, the declassified 1st, then walk through to the other carriages. It seems there is still a high percentage of off-peak travellers who have no idea they can sit there. From a selfish point of view, long may that state of affairs continue!

Same when you get 700s departing from the "bays" at London Bridge (i.e. weekend services to Horsham), when you get travellers not realising it's declassified, and you can spot the regular commuter as they know the secret.

Walking through 1st class to be at the front of the train isn't anything new, last timetable change the 13:47 Salisbury - Waterloo used to attach to another unit at Waterloo, but the doors were normally released to allow passengers to exit before closing and attaching, the evil looks from those who walk to the front and stand in 1st class to be first off, but having to walk back because the front door isn't released.

class 9 · 30 Sep 2019

GoneSouth said:
Agreed! No idea where 1st class is when boarding GWR and XC as the train pulls into the station. Sometimes the station announcements are accurate but I wouldn’t rely on them. Loved the thick yellow band at the top of the HSTs back in the 90s, very clear. Honestly I can’t understand why anyone would want to pay the ludicrous XC 1st fares anyway. They should just do away with it completely and increase capacity for the majority of standard class passengers.

XC trains have the yellow stripe, also as a voyager arrives at a station, look at the coupler, the 1st class vehicle has a yellow stripe on it.

Killingworth · 30 Sep 2019

If your train stops with 2 carriages in the rear fixed unit of 3 out of the platform, and the first class section is at the front of that unit, it's hardly surprising that the 50 people wanting to board won't all wait patiently at the very end of that platform to board the only standard class door available. The alternative is standing in another section of the train.

If there was room to open a newspaper at commuting times it would be wonderful.

baz962 · 30 Sep 2019

Killingworth said:
If your train stops with 2 carriages in the rear fixed unit of 3 out of the platform, and the first class section is at the front of that unit, it's hardly surprising that the 50 people wanting to board won't all wait patiently at the very end of that platform to board the only standard class door available. The alternative is standing in another section of the train.

If there was room to open a newspaper at commuting times it would be wonderful.

And yet they are patient enough to board the one door by the entrance/exit/stairs , when many more are open and not being used.

moogal · 30 Sep 2019

Mag_seven said:
A lot of that has got to do with the privatised railway abolishing the internationally recognised yellow stripe on the top of the coach, so it wouldn't "spoil" their nice new livery.

How many occasional users would know what the stripe meant? To be honest, despite using trains a fair bit, I'd have had no real clue. I tend to look for the big number 1 graphics or "First Class" stickers on/next to the doors.

VT 390 · 30 Sep 2019

moogal said:
How many occasional users would know what the stripe meant? To be honest, despite using trains a fair bit, I'd have had no real clue. I tend to look for the big number 1 graphics or "First Class" stickers on/next to the doors.

Yes, I would agree that a number 1 with first class stickers on doors/windows is a good way of showing where 1st class is, as long as the numbers are a different colour to the main livery so it stands out, for example on Virgin Pendolinos the white number 1 does not stand out much.

Walking through 1st to get to Standard

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