I notice the Eurostar isn’t operating trains for a few days end of October to start of November this is a bit of a pain. Twitter says they are not taking sales so who knows if any trains will run. This is when my holiday is I may have to go earlier now.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Brussels engineering works
- Thread starter Gadget88
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
AlbertBeale
Established Member
I recently tried to book London-Hamburg on one of those days in November when there's the Brussels Midi engineering; Brussels-Hamburg is bookable, but London-Brussels (hence London-Hamburg) isn't. Eurostar say they can't confirm timings or sell tickets until Brussels work details are known.
I e-mailed Eurostar to ask when they expect to know what's going on, and also to ask them (assuming they should know the nature of the work) whether they expect (once things are pinned down) to run an amended - but normal-ish - service, or whether they expect they won't be able to run anything much useful at all. They haven't replied.
Since I have commitments at the other end, I'd appreciate it if anyone who knows about these things can tell me what the situation is likely to be. There are London-Hamburg routings via Paris, but taking several hours longer and at twice the price. If I had to pay that much I might as well go sail-rail via Hook of Holland the night before, combined with a cheap ticket from the Dutch border to Hamburg, which would be a similar overall cost. (And saving an early morning dash to St P, and getting to Hamburg earlier.)
Thanks for whatever anyone can tell me!
I e-mailed Eurostar to ask when they expect to know what's going on, and also to ask them (assuming they should know the nature of the work) whether they expect (once things are pinned down) to run an amended - but normal-ish - service, or whether they expect they won't be able to run anything much useful at all. They haven't replied.
Since I have commitments at the other end, I'd appreciate it if anyone who knows about these things can tell me what the situation is likely to be. There are London-Hamburg routings via Paris, but taking several hours longer and at twice the price. If I had to pay that much I might as well go sail-rail via Hook of Holland the night before, combined with a cheap ticket from the Dutch border to Hamburg, which would be a similar overall cost. (And saving an early morning dash to St P, and getting to Hamburg earlier.)
Thanks for whatever anyone can tell me!
The website says "Until timetables are confirmed" for Brussels, "No trains" for Amsterdam - to me that's clear enough that there will be trains to Brussels.
It also warns of possible alterations to ICE/Thalys - the DB site has nothing on those yet but it's 3 months away.
It also warns of possible alterations to ICE/Thalys - the DB site has nothing on those yet but it's 3 months away.
It will be something close to chaos, and the priority for both SNCB and Infrabel will be to provide a minimum domestic service. The whole south approach of Brussels Midi will be unavailable for two consecutive week-ends in order to switch the control of the station to a new signalling cabin. Most domestic trains will avoid the north-midi junction in Brussels completely and use the peripheral lines 26 and 28 instead. ICE trains should not be impacted as they don't go south of Brussels but Thalys trains definitely will. I will certainely hang around there to take pictures...
AlexNL
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 1,683
According to information posted on HGBTF (the Belgian equivalent to these forums) Eurostar will run round via L28 on 3 out of the 6 days that these engineering works will last - as they need Brussel Zuid for the Eurostar facilities there. This likely means that there won't be a Eurostar service to Brussels in one weekend, but Brussels will have a service during the other weekend.
Unfortunately no further information is available yet.
Depending on how urgent it is for you, the Hook of Holland route may be an interesting alternative route. If all goes well, by then the Hoekse Lijn should be in operation again allowing you to take the metro to Rotterdam.
Unfortunately no further information is available yet.
Depending on how urgent it is for you, the Hook of Holland route may be an interesting alternative route. If all goes well, by then the Hoekse Lijn should be in operation again allowing you to take the metro to Rotterdam.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Many thanks for all the helpful information here. From what's said, I guess I should assume the worst! (Though what does "run round via L28" mean?)
I'll hang on a bit longer in case the news (from Eurostar, or any of you experts) does turn out positive. But I have an event booked, accommodation arranged, and an onward jaunt out from Hamburg and back planned, not to mention already having my return tickets from Hamburg to London - so I have to somehow get from London to Hamburg between a Friday evening and the Saturday evening. Hence if London-Brussels really doesn't operate that Saturday, it'll mean having to splash out extra for a Friday night Harwich-Hook ferry.
I'll hang on a bit longer in case the news (from Eurostar, or any of you experts) does turn out positive. But I have an event booked, accommodation arranged, and an onward jaunt out from Hamburg and back planned, not to mention already having my return tickets from Hamburg to London - so I have to somehow get from London to Hamburg between a Friday evening and the Saturday evening. Hence if London-Brussels really doesn't operate that Saturday, it'll mean having to splash out extra for a Friday night Harwich-Hook ferry.
If you google for something like Belgium train line map, you get things showing the Belgians seem to number their train lines. Line 28 appears to be a short one near Brussels that’s separate from the others in that area.
There will not be a move to a new signalbox, rather the command of the southern approach will switch from an "all-relais" system to the computer worked EBP-PLP system. This means that new signals come into service.
As for international trains: Eurostar, Thalys and TGV will be diverted between Bruxelles-Midi and Halle, using the lines 26 and 161 (Halle - Etterbeek - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Midi. Through services to Amsterdam or Köln will not be possible. It's an opportunity for photographers and trach bashers!
As for international trains: Eurostar, Thalys and TGV will be diverted between Bruxelles-Midi and Halle, using the lines 26 and 161 (Halle - Etterbeek - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Midi. Through services to Amsterdam or Köln will not be possible. It's an opportunity for photographers and trach bashers!
Line 28 is in fact the western orbital line around Brussels, linking Schaarbeek to Bruxelles-Midi. For years it was freight-only, but it was reopend a few years ago.
New signals, but not only. EBP means that station operators trace the itineraries with a computer interface, using screen, keyboard, and mouse instead of a classical panel of buttons. PLP means interlocking becomes computer based (stratus systems) Instead of relay based. And indeed, new signals, new switch motors, new cabling. In fact, everything changes. The existing signal box will be completely replaced. The new signalling centre already exists but controls only the northern part of the station for the moment.
This new signalling centre is, over time, expected to take over the management of the whole Brussels area. The same is going on all over the country, in 2022 only 10 signalling centres will manage the whole belgian network.
Last edited:
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Thanks again all.
I've finally had a reply from Eurostar, after waiting all week, saying, "We are expecting these tickets to be released in the next several weeks once the we have further information..." and "Currently we do not know how this will affect the trains, it may be a reduced service or certain trains will be slightly longer journey time of the reduced speed track has to be used."
This makes sense with what's been said here about services looping round and arriving at B Midi via B Nord - ie those that do run will take a bit longer. Though what effect that will have on onward connections to Germany I'll have to wait and see... (Though I won't risk waiting for too long, in case the - already higher - Sail-Rail prices go up. I guess it's a gamble.)
But I don't understand the reference to "services to Amsterdam or Köln will not be possible" - surely (if they don't anyway) they can head via B Nord to get out, like the Eurostars? I note that journey planners and ticket sites do show the normal Brussels-Germany connections for those dates, despite not showing London-Brussels yet. So I presume that means they''re not expecting disruption to those?
No it doesn't. The new technology is installed in the existing signalbox - same building, same room. Only the consoles with the buttons will be replaced by computer screens. Besides, the southern approach is the last one to be controlled by the "old" technologie. All other parts of Bruxelles-Midi are worked by EBP-PLP, some (like Ruisbroek jct) for almost 20 years.
There is indeed a new signalbox planned, but it is not even decided yet where it will be built !
The problem is that B-Nord does not have the capacity or the infrastructure to keep a Thalys on a platform to change direction - not to mention refilling the bar... All trains have to continue to B-Midi where a change of trains will be necessary. Eurostars are obliged to go to B-Midi because they cross a Schengen border and need to arrive or depart from a sealed off platform. This will be platform 3 at B-Midi. This information is based on the first working timetables released by Infrabel. Changes are as always possible.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Hi - thanks. I realised about Eurostars needing to be at Midi, but didn't know about any problem with Thalys. (Though from what you say, they could go via Nord to Midi and then reverse back from there?) However, there are regular non-Thalys trains from Brussels to Germany - and those seem to be scheduled OK during the works. At least, you can get tickets for them!
Do the working timetables give any indication of Eurostar arrival times - and so possible onward connections to Germany? (Some of those connections can be fairly tight anyway, and don't leave much leeway for a slower arrival from London.) I need to travel London-Hamburg on the morning of Saturday 2 November. Thanks.
Yeah, ok. If by signalbox you mean the building, then fine, you are right. But the building is certainly the least important part of this story. What is really important, and justify the mess that we will have in November, is everything else : new operator desks - installed one floor below the current one - new interlocking, new operating procedures, etc. For me this means "new signal box".
Do you have connections/constraints at either end? If not, as soon as ES confirm the actual times, DB will release London Spezial tickets for the whole journey. Meanwhile, I would assume an extra 2 hours travel time. So 1104 London would put you on the 19xx Cologne-Hamburg not the 17xx.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Thanks for this advice. My one main constraint is not wanting to arrive in a city I don't know, where they speak a language I don't know, later than the end of the afternoon. (I was intending to catch the first service of the day from St P to Brussels, to make the 13xx from Cologne, reaching Hamburg soon after 5pm, so as to check in at the hotel before the evening, with time to then eat and explore according to whim/energy.) If your assumption is right - and it looks logical - there might be no way, however early I leave London, to have reliable connections to Hamburg that don't entail arriving in the evening ... possibly well through the evening, depending on how connections are affected..
But I can wait a bit longer to see whether it becomes clear one way or the other in the next couple of weeks, before - if necessary - abandoning this plan and going Harwich-Hook the previous night and hopping around on several Dutch trains to get to a Hamburg connection around the border. Other aspects of the trip are mostly already organised, and so I have little leeway in terms of needing to get to Hamburg on the intended day!
Again: not correct. The new desks will be installed in the SAME place as the current ones. A change of technology is not the same as a new signal box, otherwise it would be the fifth "new" signal box at B-Midi in the last six years...
And there will be no new operating procedures - the rule book is the same for every signal box in the country.
Last edited:
There will be no Eurostars on 2 november !
I have made a Word document with the planned timetable on the Halle - Etterbeek section of line 26, based on the current information. As always, this is subject to change ! As I did this to photograph the trains, early morning and evening trains are not included because they will run in the dark. It gives a good idea of the operation though.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Thanks so much for this - it's the first time I've heard definitively that there will be no London-Brussles services on 2 November! If you know that, how come Eurostar can't tell me that when I ask?!
Maybe because the info is subject to change, as gysev says.
Anyway, looks as if on 1 Nov (Belgian public holiday BTW) you should be able to get to Koeln for 1415 but no earlier.
That was referring to the timings of the rerouted trains. There will be definitely no Eurostar on 2/11.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Thanks again to everyone for their expertise.
I had - as mentioned earlier - tried asking Eurostar, and got nothing useful; when I pressed them they told me that there would be no London-Amsterdam through trains on the dates of the engineering work ... which wasn't what I'd asked them, of course. (Despite that, if you try to book such a London-Amsterdam train on their website, it still doesn't own up to the known, and admitted by them, lack of service that day, but says to try again later.)
Following that non-answer from their customer services e-mail address, I did go back to them one more time. I asked them point-blank whether - irrespective of being able to fix actual timings yet - there would or would not be trains at least as far as Brussels on the affected dates, and, specifically, on 2 November. I've had a reply from them this week saying: "We will be running trains to Brussels on these days but yet to release the schedule until we know what impact it will have on the timetable. We expect these to be released over the next few weeks."
I have to say I'm minded to believe people on this forum in preference to believing what Eurostar tell me!
AlbertBeale
Established Member
An update, more than a fortnight later:
Given that the Eurostar website still says they will have a service from London to Brussels on Brussels engineering dates (though explicitly not on to Amsterdam), but await timings, I've tried asking them directly again this week what their plans currently are. An e-mail from them this morning says: "We will have trains running on theses dates but the timetable is yet to be released." So they still claim that, but one of you here says "There will be definitely no Eurostar on 2/11."
My instinct is still to trust this forum; but Eurostar are very persistent and consistent in telling me that there will be a service. Any comments? Thanks.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
One final update...
Being frustrated about seemingly inaccurate info from Eurostar's e-mail enquiries and on their service updates webpage, I found a non-rip-off phone number and rang Eurostar today. After a bit of rooting round, once I'd explained the situation, the nice man told me that although there would be limited and slower services on some Brussels engineering days [timetables to be - eventually!?! - announced], on 2 November there would be no services London-Brussels at all [unless Belgian railways suddenly pulled the plug on their plan of works of course...] - just like the good folks on this forum thread told me weeks back.
I told him I was grateful to hear information from someone who sounded as though they knew what they were talking about, and suggested they corrected their website, and the information used by their e-mail repliers, to match reality. He was contrite, and explained that people answering e-mails generally just access the same public information that I could see on the website anyway, and didn't check back on any internal info - as he had done when I pressed him - to get an accurate answer. He said he'd feed in an urgent note to get someone to deal with the misleading website info.
However, he didn't offer me a free ticket for telling them their website was wrong!
So - thanks all.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
A really final update. The Eurostar website wasn't changed to own up to the fact that - at least on 2 November - there would be no through trains to Brussels. So, frustrated by the Eurostar website still implying that there would be through trains every day, but they just didn't know the times, I ended up getting a complaint through to a higher level part of their system. However, I was still getting told by their "Executive Office" complaints people that Eurostar had received no information which would mean the withdrawal of Brussels trains completely on any day, so they wouldn't change the website information to even say that there might be no service that day..
Finally, in the last couple of weeks, Eurostar's website has admitted you'd need to travel by a slow, indirect - and of course more expensive - route between London and Brussels that day. Yet again, thanks to the experts here, giving me reliable information which enabled me to re-organise my plans in time ... a couple of months before Eurostar admitted what you're already told me.
Finally, in the last couple of weeks, Eurostar's website has admitted you'd need to travel by a slow, indirect - and of course more expensive - route between London and Brussels that day. Yet again, thanks to the experts here, giving me reliable information which enabled me to re-organise my plans in time ... a couple of months before Eurostar admitted what you're already told me.
ashkeba
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2019
- Messages
- 2,171
The Brussels works started today. Eurostar truncated at at Lille on 2nd, 9th and 11th. TGV continues with modifications. Up to 35min extra journey time other days. B-europe.com for full info.
- Status