Ashford International Xmas 2019 works

Joe Paxton · 22 Sep 2019

On the Network Rail Kent Route upgrade plan webpage, under Major projects in delivery (towards the bottom of the page) there is this...

Ashford switches and crossings renewal- planned

At Christmas 2019 we will be replacing three sets of old switches and crossings – the moveable rails which allow trains to switch tracks – at Ashford International station. This will mean passengers travelling through Ashford will be able to enjoy smoother rides on trains with fewer delays due to faults with the track.

Preparatory work to improve the drainage in the area will take place over the weekend of 24/25 November. The main work to replace the switches and crossings will take place between 25 December and 30 December, including on Friday 27 December, a normal working day.

There will be changes to Southeastern services and no high speed or international services will call at Ashford on the above dates. Passengers should check before they travel and allow more time for their journeys if travelling through Kent this Christmas.

Southeastern's published information on planned engineering works doesn't yet extend to late December, but it does include the weekend of ~~24/25 November~~ 23/24 November when preparatory works will be taking place - this states that the line between Ashford Int'l and Canterbury West will be closed as part of these works. Highspeed trains will run but only on HS1 from St Pancras as far as Ebbsfleet, thence onto the North Kent line.

Thought it was worth a heads up.

(Edit - corrected dates to 23/24 Nov - text on Network Rail's webpage erroneously states "weekend of 24/25 November".)

RailUK Forums

Cletus · 23 Sep 2019

Thanks for this.

There I was looking for Christmas/New Year engineering works north from London before arranging a trip up-country, and now I find out I may not get to London

Joe Paxton · 23 Sep 2019

Cletus said:
Thanks for this.

There I was looking for Christmas/New Year engineering works north from London before arranging a trip up-country, and now I find out I may not get to London

I'm a little surprised that SE isn't publicising this yet (even in a low key manner) - I can't see the harm in them doing so.

Looking at RTT for the November weekend, there will at least be classic (non-HS1) train services at Ashford - trains through to Dover (and beyond) from Charing Cross (Sat) or Cannon Street (Sun), plus the Victoria trains that normally start from Canterbury West will start from Ashford instead.

Canterbury East will still have its London-bound trains to Victoria.

AlbertBeale · 24 Sep 2019

Joe Paxton said:
On the Network Rail Kent Route upgrade plan webpage, under Major projects in delivery (towards the bottom of the page) there is this...

Ashford switches and crossings renewal- planned
At Christmas 2019 we will be replacing three sets of old switches and crossings – the moveable rails which allow trains to switch tracks – at Ashford International station. This will mean passengers travelling through Ashford will be able to enjoy smoother rides on trains with fewer delays due to faults with the track.

Southeastern's published information on planned engineering works doesn't yet extend to late December, but it does include the weekend of 24/25 November when preparatory works will be taking place - this states that the line between Ashford Int'l and Canterbury West will be closed as part of these works. Highspeed trains will run but only on HS1 from St Pancras as far as Ebbsfleet, thence onto the North Kent line.

Thought it was worth a heads up.

"Switches???" Do they really mean switches?

pdeaves · 24 Sep 2019

AlbertBeale said:
"Switches???" Do they really mean switches?

Yes, it's a standard UK industry term for point ends.

Cletus · 25 Sep 2019

There's no HS1 trains between Ashford and Ebbsfleet on Sunday 15th December either.

Cletus · 30 Sep 2019

There's some additional information now on the Southeastern website.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co....k?date=2019-12-27#engineering-departure-board

Date:
27 December - 29 December 2019 11:59 PM

Routes affected:
Between Ashford International / London Victoria / London Charing Cross / London St Pancras International and Ramsgate / Canterbury West / Dover Priory / Ashford International / Margate

Engineering work is taking place between Ashford International and Canterbury West, closing some lines.

As a result of this, rail replacement buses will operate on the following routes:

- Between Ashford International and Canterbury West
- Between Ashford International and Ebbsfleet International

The following alterations will also apply:

High Speed line -

Friday 27 - Saturday 28 December - There will be no high speed services via Ashford International.

London St Pancras International to Margate (via Canterbury West) / Ramsgate (via Dover Priory) services will not run.

Sunday 29 December - An additional fast running service will operate between Ashford International and London Victoria via Maidstone East.

Paddock Wood line - London Charing Cross to Ramsgate (via Canterbury) services will be diverted and will instead run via Dover Priory. This service will stop at all stations between Dover and Ramsgate.

Maidstone East line - London Victoria to Canterbury West (via Maidstone East) services will be re-timed and only run between London Victoria and Ashford International.

Bromley South line - Friday 27 - Saturday 28 December - Stopping services between London Victoria and Bromley South will operate every 30 minutes. Trains which normally start / terminate at Bromley South will not run.

A shuttle train service will operate between Canterbury West and Margate.

DarloRich · 1 Oct 2019

Cletus said:
There's some additional information now on the Southeastern website.

seems like the coordinated messaging didn't quite work out!

AlbertBeale said:
"Switches???" Do they really mean switches?

Yes - they means switches and in switches and crossings. It is standard terminology. The information quoted clearly set that out.

yorksrob · 1 Oct 2019

Looks like a well thought out plan which shows the beauty of having various routes to choose from.

I'm a little surprised that the Sunday express service is running to Vic rather than Charing Cross. Is there a reason I wonder ?

30907 · 1 Oct 2019

yorksrob said:
Looks like a well thought out plan which shows the beauty of having various routes to choose from.

I'm a little surprised that the Sunday express service is running to Vic rather than Charing Cross. Is there a reason I wonder ?

Only thing I can see is work between St John's and Dartford via Sidcup, plus at Denmark Hill. So no path available into CHX? Odd nevertheless.

yorksrob · 1 Oct 2019

30907 said:
Only thing I can see is work between St John's and Dartford via Sidcup, plus at Denmark Hill. So no path available into CHX? Odd nevertheless.

Yes, that could be it. Alternatively, perhaps they just think the Victoria line is an easier route to Kings Cross from the South !

paul1609 · 1 Oct 2019

yorksrob said:
Looks like a well thought out plan which shows the beauty of having various routes to choose from.

I'm a little surprised that the Sunday express service is running to Vic rather than Charing Cross. Is there a reason I wonder ?

Its a pretty standard engineering weekend thing now. Including last weekend allows some of the lines through South london to be closed.
Ashford trains are diverted to Victoria via Bromley South. Hastings trains serve London Bridge etc.
From Ashford change at Tonbridge for Charing Cross it was about a 10 minute wait at Tonbridge when I was travelling to Fratton from Headcorn and return on Saturday.
Its the same next weekend when I'm travelling up to Doncaster (its cold up north pack your hat and tracky). Im on a train to Victoria then tube to Kings Cross and vice versa.

yorksrob · 1 Oct 2019

paul1609 said:
Its a pretty standard engineering weekend thing now. Including last weekend allows some of the lines through South london to be closed.
Ashford trains are diverted to Victoria via Bromley South. Hastings trains serve London Bridge etc.
From Ashford change at Tonbridge for Charing Cross it was about a 10 minute wait at Tonbridge when I was travelling to Fratton from Headcorn and return on Saturday.

Ah yes, that sounds likely. I've been on trains running via the main line, then diverting at Orpington to Victoria a couple of times.

AlbertBeale · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
seems like the coordinated messaging didn't quite work out!

Yes - they means switches and in switches and crossings. It is standard terminology. The information quoted clearly set that out.

Obviously not that clearly for a non-expert like me - sounds like what's meant is what I thought were called points. The terminology used puzzled me.

DarloRich · 2 Oct 2019

AlbertBeale said:
Obviously not that clearly for a non-expert like me - sounds like what's meant is what I thought were called points. The terminology used puzzled me.

But the quoted document clearly set out what was happening using the term you didn't recognize

AlbertBeale · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
But the quoted document clearly set out what was happening using the term you didn't recognize

But by using a term I didn't recognise, it left me confused and wondering whether I'd misunderstood the explanation - which didn't (as far as I was concerned) match the terminology. I do apologise that there are such stupid amateur people as me on this forum to try your patience.

sjoh · 2 Oct 2019

Quick point of order is that the weekend is actually the 23/24 November. I wouldn't usually bother pointing it out, but my birthday's on the 25th, and I was adamant that it was not on the weekend, otherwise would have duly made my plans for that weekend rather than the next...

30907 · 2 Oct 2019

AlbertBeale said:
But by using a term I didn't recognise, it left me confused and wondering whether I'd misunderstood the explanation - which didn't (as far as I was concerned) match the terminology. I do apologise that there are such stupid amateur people as me on this forum to try your patience.

It would have helped if they had used both the in-house technical term AND the one commonly used in public communication ("points failure...")

DarloRich · 2 Oct 2019

AlbertBeale said:
But by using a term I didn't recognise, it left me confused and wondering whether I'd misunderstood the explanation - which didn't (as far as I was concerned) match the terminology. I do apologise that there are such stupid amateur people as me on this forum to try your patience.

I never said anything of the sort! I simply pointed you hadn't managed to read the quoited passage which very clearly sets out the situation and terminology.

30907 said:
It would have helped if they had used both the in-house technical term AND the one commonly used in public communication ("points failure...")

I think that would be more confusing. The correct terminology has been used in the correct manner in the quoted statement. The whole switch and crossing unit is being replaced rather than just the "points"

To say a switch and crossing failure would describe a much more series issue than a points failure which could just be the motor packing up.

AlbertBeale · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
I think that would be more confusing. The correct terminology has been used in the correct manner in the quoted statement. The whole switch and crossing unit is being replaced rather than just the "points"
To say a switch and crossing failure would describe a much more series issue than a points failure which could just be the motor packing up.

Confusion is in the mind of the "beholder". What one person finds less confusing might well be more confusing for someone else, as here. What is more or less confusing can't be a matter of absolute fact. If I say that, having read something, I was confused by it, then I was.

BluePenguin · 2 Oct 2019

Joe Paxton said:
I'm a little surprised that SE isn't publicising this yet (even in a low key manner) - I can't see the harm in them doing so.

Looking at RTT for the November weekend, there will at least be classic (non-HS1) train services at Ashford - trains through to Dover (and beyond) from Charing Cross (Sat) or Cannon Street (Sun), plus the Victoria trains that normally start from Canterbury West will start from Ashford instead.

Canterbury East will still have its London-bound trains to Victoria.

That is good, at least there will be something running.

However, in the absence of any high speed services will this mean a "fast" service will run to and from either Charing Cross or Cannon Street to provide alternative reasonable journey times?

In the past when there has been engineering works on Sundays, Southeastern have been notorious for running an extra service from Ramsgate alongside the usual stopper. Typically this does not call at Sandling, Westernhanger and Pluckley but strangely does call at Orpington. This has been a complete slap in the face and wastes a lot of time

To add insult to injury, the additional fast Ashford - Tonbridge - Bromley South - Victoria is never timed well for as a connection.

DarloRich · 3 Oct 2019

AlbertBeale said:
Confusion is in the mind of the "beholder". What one person finds less confusing might well be more confusing for someone else, as here. What is more or less confusing can't be a matter of absolute fact. If I say that, having read something, I was confused by it, then I was.

Ok. My point still remains: the information was clearly presented in the quoted document and if you were confused it might have been more sensible to ask "what does switch and crossing mean?" or " does switch and crossing mean the same as "points"?" Instead you chose a different approach.

Islineclear3_1 · 3 Oct 2019

Joe Paxton said:
Southeastern's published information on planned engineering works doesn't yet extend to late December, but it does include the weekend of 24/25 November when preparatory works will be taking place - this states that the line between Ashford Int'l and Canterbury West will be closed as part of these works. Highspeed trains will run but only on HS1 from St Pancras as far as Ebbsfleet, thence onto the North Kent line.

Bugger, does this mean once on the North Kent Line, they will run via Medway onto Canterbury East instead?

Will have to keep an eye in the coming weeks and plan accordingly...

30907 · 3 Oct 2019

robert7111a said:
Bugger, does this mean once on the North Kent Line, they will run via Medway onto Canterbury East instead?

Will have to keep an eye in the coming weeks and plan accordingly...

Reading the text, the NK services will run normally, so to Faversham/Ramsgate.
(Mind you, it also refers to the VIC-Orpington services as running to Ashford, so try the journey planner!)

AlbertBeale · 3 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
Ok. My point still remains: the information was clearly presented in the quoted document and if you were confused it might have been more sensible to ask "what does switch and crossing mean?" or " does switch and crossing mean the same as "points"?" Instead you chose a different approach.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who doesn't always stop to chose the wording which might be the most appropriate to communicate well....

brad465 · 4 Oct 2019

sjoh said:
Quick point of order is that the weekend is actually the 23/24 November. I wouldn't usually bother pointing it out, but my birthday's on the 25th, and I was adamant that it was not on the weekend, otherwise would have duly made my plans for that weekend rather than the next...

My birthday is the 24th and for that reason would have pointed the error out had you not got there first

brad465 · 4 Oct 2019

yorksrob said:
Looks like a well thought out plan which shows the beauty of having various routes to choose from.

I'm a little surprised that the Sunday express service is running to Vic rather than Charing Cross. Is there a reason I wonder ?

Earlier this year that service operated as described and I got it between Sevenoaks and Ashford and back for the fun of a non-stop TON-AFK run. The only annoying thing for me was it was a 377 running it (they're not as nice on the inside as 375s).

yorksrob · 4 Oct 2019

brad465 said:
Earlier this year that service operated as described and I got it between Sevenoaks and Ashford and back for the fun of a non-stop TON-AFK run. The only annoying thing for me was it was a 377 running it (they're not as nice on the inside as 375s).

Ah, I'm afraid I'm not sure the difference between a 377 and 375 (I prefer trains denoted by letters personally :lol:

) but if I'm down that way at the time, I'll definitely book in a fast trip.

I was very impressed with a 23 minute non-stop trip from Ashford to Tonbridge last year during engineering works

Joe Paxton · 5 Oct 2019

sjoh said:
Quick point of order is that the weekend is actually the 23/24 November. I wouldn't usually bother pointing it out, but my birthday's on the 25th, and I was adamant that it was not on the weekend, otherwise would have duly made my plans for that weekend rather than the next...

brad465 said:
My birthday is the 24th and for that reason would have pointed the error out had you not got there first

I point the finger of blame at Network Rail, who incorrectly state "the weekend of 24/25 November" on their webpage - I just hope their internal project documentation is more accurate!

Horizon22 · 6 Oct 2019

Its not just Christmas; looks like there will be several weekends of High Speed closures into January and possibly February too.

Ashford International Xmas 2019 works

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