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All Line Rover concerns

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SparkieLover

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11 Jan 2017
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33
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London
Hello Gents,

I've wanted to do an ALR back in 80s, back then it was beyond my means. Because of these forums, I've reinvigorated my interest in contemplating doing one. Now that I have a DPRC the temptation is greater.

However, I've found some sticking points, which are:

1) The price.
a) I'm wondering if in 2019 that £347.15 (STD) or £525.35 (1ST) represents poor, reasonable, good or tremendous value.
b) What benefits that a first class rover over a standard class one to warrant a difference of £178?

2) Sleeper supplements.
I understand the benefits travelling overnight.w Because you get to spend a whole day hundreds of miles away. However, the big ouch is the cost to occupy a berth.
a) The Cally sleeper is £120.
b) The Kernow one is £80.
I think they are obscene as I get two nights in a hotel for a fraction of those.
Is there a workaround?
c) Are the seats suitable for sleeping on?

3) Advance purchase.
Is it possible to say in 2019 to purchase a rover for 2020 (beating the New Year fare rise)?

4) Food and drink.
This venture isn't one where you can prepare a packed lunch from. How do you guys dealt with it?

5) Clothing and personal hygene.
Being unhygenic on public transport is anti-social.
a) How did you dealt with getting yourself washed?
b) How did you dealt with a change of clothes?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
 
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riceuten

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23 May 2018
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510
It all depends on how flexible you want to be. £347.15 represents good(ish) value if you want to take a number of lengthy journeys off peak at short notice and be able to change your plans as you wish. If you can book months in advance and commit yourself to certain trains, perhaps less so. The first class difference is the free food and drink offer on some trains (and a slightly bigger seat) - that's probably about it. The sleeper supplements are expensive - they are the same (IIRC) if you upgrade from a seat ticket to a sleeper. Sometimes you can honestly get cheaper fares booking far in advance, that's the only workaround I can think of.

No idea about (far in) advance purchase, https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr20780b0a0400020167ed620a7e504e.aspx makes no reference to it, but I can't see why not

As regards food and personal hygiene - whenever I have done a lengthy rail trip, I've always booked into hostels, cheap hotels or a sleeper for the night.

The first two will have showers - and I usually take a few days fresh clothing with me that I can wash or visit a launderette whilst underway. Similarly, a trip to a supermarket has given me all the tools needed to make my own snacks and sandwiches - or I have eaten in cafes. It all depends on your budget, about which I know nothing.
 

westv

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Joined
29 Mar 2013
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4,203
I did a 2 week all line rover way back in 1986. When travelling overnight I slept in my seat. Other nights I used Youth Hostels.
 

SeanG

Member
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4 May 2013
Messages
1,175
Some first class lounges have showers do they not? This may go some way to justifying the extra cost for you?
 

RJ

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Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,383
Location
Back office
Hello Gents,

I've wanted to do an ALR back in 80s, back then it was beyond my means. Because of these forums, I've reinvigorated my interest in contemplating doing one. Now that I have a DPRC the temptation is greater.

However, I've found some sticking points, which are:

1) The price.
a) I'm wondering if in 2019 that £347.15 (STD) or £525.35 (1ST) represents poor, reasonable, good or tremendous value.
b) What benefits that a first class rover over a standard class one to warrant a difference of £178?

2) Sleeper supplements.
...

3) Advance purchase.
Is it possible to say in 2019 to purchase a rover for 2020 (beating the New Year fare rise)?

4) Food and drink.
This venture isn't one where you can prepare a packed lunch from. How do you guys dealt with it?

5) Clothing and personal hygene.
...

So I did a couple of First Class ALRs in 2012 - no discount as the industry didn't want to incentivise 16-25 year olds or TOC NE Privholders to travel in this accommodation!

1) Value depends on your reasons for buying it. If you have a valid reason for making expensive, unpredictable trips of an irregular nature, perhaps for work then it's very good value. If it's because you want to ride the rails then you may find it better to plan carefully and use Advance fares in combination with cheaper regional rovers. If you're the type who likes to spend hours in towns or cities then again, it might not be the best option for you. I did it simply because I wanted to see the country by rail and didn't envisage wanting to clear 7 days to do so between being a student and retiring from full time work.

I came to the conclusion that the premium for First Class wasn't worth it. Standard Class is quite nice nowadays with tables and plug sockets on long distance trains. The likes of Chiltern and HS1 have particularly nice Standard Class accommodation. On the commuter TOCs, there are no frills beyond a nicer seat and maybe plug sockets. The cabins are poorly policed and well patronised by those without valid tickets. You'll also realise that on large parts of the network, there's either no First Class or provision is skeletal. Some very long distance EMT and Northern services have no First. You'll struggle in much of Scotland and Wales and elsewhere you might wonder why you've chosen to sit on a Pacer or 150 in some places when your ticket is worth hundreds of pounds.

On the intercity TOCs the standard of service varies wildly between TOCs and even within them. Availability of food & drink, or even staff to serve them was very hit and miss on certain TOCs and again, you'll wonder why you even bothered to pay the premium. That said, a massive thumbs up to East Midlands Trains, Hull Trains, Virgin Trains and the erstwhile Arriva Trains Wales for delivering consistently. Thumbs down to CrossCountry, Great Western and whoever was on the East Coast at the time for a poor effort. Grand Central, the carriage was litter strewn, rammed with some passengers who didn't have a First ticket and the electronics were down so no charging facilities or hot food. I'd like to give them another chance but haven't done so yet.

The First Class lounges were an interesting experience - Cardiff was the most memorable and would recommend a visit if you decide to go First. Hopefully it hasn't changed.

2) You can sleep on the seats but I'd recommend having a look on the train and deciding whether or not it's for you. Personally I'd go for a berth. The gentle rocking of the train did wonders for a satisfying sleep in both cases. The Priv came in handy for getting a favourable pricing arrangement in both cases, but the public rate isn't so competitive vs getting a cheap hotel.

3) You certainly can at the ticket office I work at, if you wish.

4) You get fed on intercity trains if you go First Class. Otherwise it's pub food, fast food, takeaways or visiting friends and family.

5) I was a student at the time with no budget for hotels. Every night I either returned to halls in Loughborough or home in London. During this time it became very apparent just how much easier it is to get anywhere from London quickly. However, now I'd book into hotels or stay by friends.

Overall I'm really glad I did it both times. The UK is beautiful and the greatest asset the railways have its staff - they were great most of the time. Make sure to make the most of it!
 
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radamfi

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9,267
The ALR is incredibly poor value when compared to Interrail passes, especially One Country Passes. I did an ALR back in 1996 but never again. Mainland Europe is cheaper and better.
 

Western Sunset

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23 Dec 2014
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2,495
Location
Wimborne, Dorset
Did a two-week ALR back in 1971. Being 16 at the time, for some reason I didn't even consider the personal hygiene angle.....
Lots of over-night trains with seating accommodation in compartments in those days. Only visited home once in the entire fortnight.
 

crosscity

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2011
Messages
586
Location
Birmingham
When I was 17 in the seventies I did a week ALR with a mate. Hotels were not an option then, so we tended to catch a sleeper one night and go home the following night. With hotels now being so prolific and relatively cheap you're probably just as well planning your journeys around hotel stays.

In the seventies, of course, there were far more overnight trains than now - not just sleepers, but newspaper and parcels trains with passenger accommodation.
 

Hadders

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Associate Staff
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Joined
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Messages
12,984
Only you can decide whether an ALR is good value. I did a standard class one back in 2013 which I enjoyed immensely just for the fun of making things up as you go along.

Don't under estimate how tiring a week spent travelling is. Unless you're in your teens you'll be absolutely exhausted by the end of day 2! Pace yourself, have a late start or an early finish on a couple of days. Book into a hotel or get back home for a proper nights sleep on some days as well.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
1) The price.
a) I'm wondering if in 2019 that £347.15 (STD) or £525.35 (1ST) represents poor, reasonable, good or tremendous value.
b) What benefits that a first class rover over a standard class one to warrant a difference of £178?

In case people were thinking these fares aren't too expensive, these fares are not available without a railcard. Most adults aged 30 to 60 are not eligible for a qualifying railcard unless they take someone with them.

The actual fares are £526 Standard, £796 First(!). Your eyes aren't deceiving you. I've checked for typos and they really are that expensive!
 

EastCoastway

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Joined
6 Mar 2019
Messages
83
I'm contemplating doing it as a week holiday thing because a week of Premier in and a Priv ALR wouldn't be too expensive but a good way to see the country.
 

Mainline421

Member
Joined
7 May 2013
Messages
483
Location
Aberystwyth
1) The price.
a) I'm wondering if in 2019 that £347.15 (STD) or £525.35 (1ST) represents poor, reasonable, good or tremendous value.
b) What benefits that a first class rover over a standard class one to warrant a difference of £178?

2) Sleeper supplements.
I understand the benefits travelling overnight.w Because you get to spend a whole day hundreds of miles away. However, the big ouch is the cost to occupy a berth.
a) The Cally sleeper is £120.
b) The Kernow one is £80.
I think they are obscene as I get two nights in a hotel for a fraction of those.
Is there a workaround?
c) Are the seats suitable for sleeping on?

3) Advance purchase.
Is it possible to say in 2019 to purchase a rover for 2020 (beating the New Year fare rise)?

4) Food and drink.
This venture isn't one where you can prepare a packed lunch from. How do you guys dealt with it?

5) Clothing and personal hygene.
Being unhygenic on public transport is anti-social.
a) How did you dealt with getting yourself washed?
b) How did you dealt with a change of clothes?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
I did a 14 day ALR in 2018:

1) For other things there are better value tickets but for traveling round GB the ALR can't be beat and is definitely worth it for the flexibility to be able to just hop on (almost) every train in the country. Standard vs 1st would very much depend on your itinerary and preferences.
2) Can't really comment on this as both will have recently had major refurbishment, personally I deliberately stayed awake 39 hours the first time for fun doing Land's End to John o' Groats. I have managed to sleep on the classic Caledonian Sleeper seats though.
4) I mostly used train buffets but food isn't really an issue unless you're on an very tight budget.
5) a) Hotel every night (except on the sleeper) b) In the end I resorted to buying cheap clothes from Primark on the go as carrying 14 days worth isn't really practical and I didn't want to have to seek out launderettes and sacrifice the the 'off-train' time to explore places.
 

Sleepy

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15 Feb 2009
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East Anglia
On Cornish Sleeper you could have a berth in twin cabin for £55. GWR have recently opened Sleeper Lounges at Truro and Penzance which have nice showers available.
 

Journeyman

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Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I did two week-long ALRs in the mid-nineties. Not sure I'd do it again, as the experience was pretty knackering, but I'm glad I did them both, as I was quite young at the time, and they included my first visits to Scotland, first Sleepers, first holidays alone, and first time I'd booked and planned things of this magnitude myself.

I did a couple of nights in Sleepers on each one, but the rest was spent in B&Bs, all of which were cheap and reasonably good. Both were planned fairly carefully, but on the first one I didn't reserve any seats, which proved to be a mistake as the trains were often very busy. I reserved for all the trains on the second week.

Food was from buffets and pubs, and usually I'd have a massive breakfast in the B&Bs I stayed in to set me up for the day.

At the time, ALRs had no time restrictions on their use, but I think they now do for some TOCs, which makes them potentially a LOT less useful. I think now I'd be tempted to use Advances for long-haul bits, and regional tickets for travelling around in various areas.
 

SteveM70

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Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
3,802
I guess it depends why you’re doing it.

If it’s a week spent maximising the amount of travel, you’ll find it easy enough to get ~£75 a day’s value out of it. But if you’re doing it because you want to spend time away from the railway doing other touristy stuff in places you travel to, you may well be able to concoct an itinerary that gets you to a smaller number of locations more cheaply than an ALR
 

Journeyman

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Joined
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Messages
6,295
I guess it depends why you’re doing it.

If it’s a week spent maximising the amount of travel, you’ll find it easy enough to get ~£75 a day’s value out of it. But if you’re doing it because you want to spend time away from the railway doing other touristy stuff in places you travel to, you may well be able to concoct an itinerary that gets you to a smaller number of locations more cheaply than an ALR

Absolutely. If you're a spotter who wants to squeeze in thousands of miles of track-bashing, they're great, but they lose their value the second you step off the station...
 

PeterY

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Joined
2 Apr 2013
Messages
1,311
Absolutely. If you're a spotter who wants to squeeze in thousands of miles of track-bashing, they're great, but they lose their value the second you step off the station...

Last year, I went mad with ALR's 2 x 7 days and 1 x 14 day. I'd turned 60, so I used my newly acquired senior card. I enjoyed every minute of using them. It was a mixture with staying with friends, my daughter, home and a few Premier Inns. I covered a lot of new lines and many thousands of miles. I also saw many parts of the country (railway stations and scenery) that I'd only ever seen in railway mags and books.

I'd suggest you do one, just for the fun of it. :D:D:D

This year, my circumstances have changed, so it was off peak returns (I don't like being tied to specific trains) and regional rovers.
 

xotGD

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6,063
I did several Freedom of Scotland Rovers back in the day. 6 overnights in a row in the seats on various overnight services - the internal overnights were best for trying to doss, but baling at Carlisle at 2 in the morning wasn't ideal for sleep. Basically, feeling like crap for most of the week, but we were young and daft. Change of clothes every 2 days and washing as best I could on the train followed by a squirt of deodorant. My staple food was a loaf of bread and a jar of jam - not exactly a balanced diet, but doable for a week.
 

Tetchytyke

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The actual fares are £526 Standard, £796 First(!). Your eyes aren't deceiving you. I've checked for typos and they really are that expensive!

The North East 4 in 8 flexi is well north of £100 now, so the ALR isn't so bad in comparison. Trains are expensive and they're not getting cheaper. I've had a day out in Glasgow 1st class and it was £60, and that's on the late LNER back. London would have been £140. An ALR looks good value from that perspective.

£115 a day for unlimited first class is NOT to be sniffed at.

It depends what you want. If you're bashing track an ALR is great; if you're wanting a few days out on trains a regional one may well hit the spot for a lot less money.

Travelodges in weird and wonderful suburban towns would be my recommendation, e.g. staying in Shipley not Leeds city centre, East Kilbride not Glasgow city centre. I couldn't bear not having a proper bed and a hot shower. Downside is you can't be quite so flexible unless you're happy paying walk-in room rates.
 
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radamfi

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The North East 4 in 8 flexi is well north of £100 now, so the ALR isn't so bad in comparison. Trains are expensive and they're not getting cheaper. I've had a day out in Glasgow 1st class and it was £60, and that's on the late LNER back. London would have been £140. An ALR looks good value from that perspective.

The most expensive 8 day in a month Interrail One Country Pass (Germany) is 297 EUR. In Germany that gives you unlimited travel on long distance ICE trains running at 250-300 km/h with no time restrictions. Even 1st class (396 EUR) is way cheaper than the ALR standard class fare.
 
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Tetchytyke

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The most expensive 8 day in a month Interrail One Country Pass (Germany) is 297 EUR.

You can't, however, buy an Interrail pass for the country you live in.

Interrail is the same as Britrail in that respect. An 8-day Britrail pass is €282/€420 full price or €240/€357 for European residents, so about the same.
 
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