Depot Space

BenW390Fan · 1 Oct 2019

With lots of new units coming in it's inevitable that depots will run out of space. The main operator in mind is Northern with lots of new units coming in but not many old units being scrapped. This came to thought when I saw a post on Facebook in a group called 'Northern Rail Enthusiasts' by Rob Fraser. The picture attached was this: (Picture courtesy of Rob Fraser, I take no credit)

Apparently it's been stored in the siding at Wakefield Westgate due to no room left at Neville Hill. Do you think there will be a point where there will be close to no room left at all? Where will they store new or old units? I believe this applied to a lot of depots around the country.

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Darandio · 1 Oct 2019

Still plenty of room out there, it's just the will to negotiate terms with freight operators in particular to use certain yards. Then there is the cost of getting them there of course, i'm not sure it's so critical at this point that their hand will be forced though.

BenW390Fan · 1 Oct 2019

Darandio said:
Still plenty of room out there, it's just the will to negotiate terms with freight operators in particular to use certain yards. Then there is the cost of getting them there of course, i'm not sure it's so critical at this point that their hand will be forced though.

Possibly yes, but what about the time and money to get units to the sidings and back into service when needed? I assume they won't be in daily passenger service as drivers would be unable to access the sidings.

Meerkat · 1 Oct 2019

Where are the trains that need storing?
Saw Micheldever yard the other day and thought that would be a good place. Limited access in a fairly remote place so security requirements would be less onerous, and plenty of space that isn’t really any use for freight.

BenW390Fan · 1 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Where are the trains that need storing?
Saw Micheldever yard the other day and thought that would be a good place. Limited access in a fairly remote place so security requirements would be less onerous, and plenty of space that isn’t really any use for freight.

Is that yard electrified?

Meerkat · 1 Oct 2019

BenW390Fan said:
Is that yard electrified?

Does it need to be? Stored stuff is dragged isn’t it?

BenW390Fan · 1 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Does it need to be? Stored stuff is dragged isn’t it?

I think it depends on how long it is in storage for, don't quote me on it though.

DarloRich · 1 Oct 2019

BenW390Fan said:
Apparently it's been stored in the siding at Wakefield Westgate due to no room left at Neville Hill

The question is WHY has it been stored there?

Also those sidings are Wakey have been used on a fairly regular basis for all kinds of things. There were coal hoppers in there recently.

RichmondCommu · 1 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
The question is WHY has it been stored there?

Absolute guess but maybe warm storage if its pan up?

theblackwatch · 1 Oct 2019

Northern have laid sidings at Heaton capable of holding 20+ Pacers. Once they are off lease though, they become the leasing company's responsibility, hence why things like the 313s ex GTR are being sent for scrap rather quickly.

BenW390Fan · 2 Oct 2019

theblackwatch said:
Northern have laid sidings at Heaton capable of holding 20+ Pacers. Once they are off lease though, they become the leasing company's responsibility, hence why things like the 313s ex GTR are being sent for scrap rather quickly.

So a good move from GTR but if Northern had got rid of the Pacers as promised then they wouldn't have this issue.

BenW390Fan · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
The question is WHY has it been stored there?

curlcurlimp said:
Absolute guess but maybe warm storage if its pan up?

The simple answer being just having no room left at Neville Hill and I'd assume other depots nearby.

DarloRich · 2 Oct 2019

BenW390Fan said:
The simple answer being just having no room left at Neville Hill and I'd assume other depots nearby.

that isnt going to be the real answer. Is it "stored" or "stabled"? Is it broken? Is the unit "of lease"? Have northern or the ROSCO parked it up there? If the unit is off lease Northern might not have space for it to hang around one of their depots for ages waiting for someone to collect it

hwl · 2 Oct 2019

BenW390Fan said:
Do you think there will be a point where there will be close to no room left at all? Where will they store new or old units? I believe this applied to a lot of depots around the country.

SouthEastern have been at the no room left point for a while. They have no spare stabling and the subleased electrostars go back to GTR for maintenance as they have no depot capacity.

BenW390Fan · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
that isnt going to be the real answer. Is it "stored" or "stabled"? Is it broken? Is the unit "of lease"? Have northern or the ROSCO parked it up there? If the unit is off lease Northern might not have space for it to hang around one of their depots for ages waiting for someone to collect it

I'm unsure who put it there or whether it's stored or stabled.

Adam0984 · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
The question is WHY has it been stored there?

Also those sidings are Wakey have been used on a fairly regular basis for all kinds of things. There were coal hoppers in there recently.

This is in the Prison Sidings off the end of platform 2 as opposed to Wrenthorpe Sidings where the coal wagons are

43094 · 2 Oct 2019

Lack of space *is* the ‘real’ answer.

The ‘official’ answer is that it’s the Hot Spare unit, strategically positioned.

DarloRich · 2 Oct 2019

43094 said:
The ‘official’ answer is that it’s the Hot Spare unit, strategically positioned.

thanks - that make sense.

( when do these units go off lease? I thought, wrongly, they had started to leave now the new trains were arriving)

furnessvale · 2 Oct 2019

Perish the thought...............perhaps they could attach them to service trains to relieve overcrowding!

I'll get my coat.

ainsworth74 · 2 Oct 2019

DarloRich said:
The question is WHY has it been stored there?

Also those sidings are Wakey have been used on a fairly regular basis for all kinds of things. There were coal hoppers in there recently.

Wrong sidings. The unit is in the Prison sidings which is visible from the station and is not much longer than that unit; you're thinking of Wrenthorpe sidings which are a couple of hundred meters further down the line.

ainsworth74 · 2 Oct 2019

furnessvale said:
Perish the thought...............perhaps they could attach them to service trains to relieve overcrowding!

Nice idea but there would only be a handful of platforms long enough for an eight car 32x formation and they don't have Selective Door Opening for the others!

furnessvale · 2 Oct 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Nice idea but there would only be a handful of platforms long enough for an eight car 32x formation and they don't have Selective Door Opening for the others!

Indeed my remark was light hearted.

On a more serious note. Presumably the stock is only fully utilised in the rush hours. Outside that time, not only stock, but also some platforms at major stations, are surplus to requirements. Why not store some of the surplus stock in the surplus platforms. I know it happens to a certain extent at present, but is it fully utilised.

edwin_m · 2 Oct 2019

ainsworth74 said:
The unit is in the Prison sidings

Maybe it's not stored or stabled but detained?

ainsworth74 said:
Nice idea but there would only be a handful of platforms long enough for an eight car 32x formation and they don't have Selective Door Opening for the others!

Also if it was off at some extremity of the network strengthening another working it wouldn't be available if needed, so it wouldn't be a hot spare!

furnessvale said:
Indeed my remark was light hearted.

On a more serious note. Presumably the stock is only fully utilised in the rush hours. Outside that time, not only stock, but also some platforms at major stations, are surplus to requirements. Why not store some of the surplus stock in the surplus platforms. I know it happens to a certain extent at present, but is it fully utilised.

There was a discussion here recently on such a use of the Leeds western bays, meaning that off-peak services departed from the far ends of the platforms. Some large stations have overnight stabling and cleaning in the platforms, Nottingham being one example.

6Gman · 2 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Where are the trains that need storing?
Saw Micheldever yard the other day and thought that would be a good place. Limited access in a fairly remote place so security requirements would be less onerous, and plenty of space that isn’t really any use for freight.

Those of us of a certain age will remember those sidings full of withdrawn units awaiting their final journeys.

4-COR, 2-BIL, 2-HAL and the like.

clagmonster · 2 Oct 2019

43094 said:
Lack of space *is* the ‘real’ answer.

The ‘official’ answer is that it’s the Hot Spare unit, strategically positioned.

In that case, is there a set of traincrew sat spare at Wakefield Westgate station, in case it is needed to work. Preferably crew with route knowledge of the Leeds North West triangle in case it needs to work there.

Also, I find it surprising that it isn't kept prepped and ready to go.

noddingdonkey · 3 Oct 2019

Weren't the 333s stored there when new, presumably because Neville Hill was full of 308s still?

theblackwatch · 3 Oct 2019

43094 said:
Lack of space *is* the ‘real’ answer.

The ‘official’ answer is that it’s the Hot Spare unit, strategically positioned.

A hot spare where there is unlikely to be a spare set of traincrew. :lol:

A 331 failed the other Saturday, rather than use this unit, the next service in each direction between Leeds and Doncaster was cancelled...

Roast Veg · 4 Oct 2019

I recently read an old London Reconnections article on the use of various electrified sidings dispersed around the SN and SE regions to protect trains from wartime bombing. They have of course now been taken up since they were costly to maintain, and I very much doubt their access is up to standards now.

swt_passenger · 4 Oct 2019

In the SWT/SWR area they’ve been gradually adding stabling capacity in the form of extra or lengthened sidings at numerous locations over the last couple of years, the reopened Feltham depot being the major new place. But there’s also been expansion at a few existing locations, including Fratton, Farnham, Basingstoke, Woking, and most recently Yeovil Junction for DMUs.

So it isn’t as though nothing ever changes anywhere...

ElectroSoldier · 4 Oct 2019

BenW390Fan said:
Possibly yes, but what about the time and money to get units to the sidings and back into service when needed? I assume they won't be in daily passenger service as drivers would be unable to access the sidings.

Stabling points are not sidings, it might look like one but the one can be accessed on foot while a siding doesnt have to have driver access from say for example the road etc

Depot Space

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