DerekC
Established Member
Murphy is always waiting for his moment!
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Thameslink meltdown 02/10
- Thread starter flitwickbeds
- Start date
- Status
Murphy is always waiting for his moment!
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Came through from St Pancras to Blackfriars oblivious to the delays until I got to the platform. I wonder how the new screens can manage disruption mode as there were obviously cancelled trains showing as next, then being replaced by the train actually outside. The constant apology announcements made things sound far worse than they actually were, albeit depending on where you needed to go. For me it was a case of taking any train.
londonmidland
Established Member
Major disruption between St. Pancras and Luton due to a broken down train near Kentish Town.
National Rail Enquires are saying disruption is to last until at least 20:00.
National Rail Enquires are saying disruption is to last until at least 20:00.
There is a 1Z99 on the ramp up to Kentish Town and 5P22 a couple of sections above it. Is the 1Z a recovery train and 5P the failed one running as ECS?
Surreytraveller
On Moderation
- Joined
- 21 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 2,810
The headcode 1Z99 is a train sent to rescue a failure
A core meltdown is incredibly disruptive obviously to Thameslink suddenly instead of running those trains they'd ultimately end up floating north or south looking for somewhere to terminate. A >50% reduction in service is inevitable.
However it also has significant knock-on effects. Particularly to Southern and Southeastern which get caught up in lost pathways, additional calls (such as Shoreham and Eynsford and Higham for a High Speed) which slows everything down. Contingency plans are obviously in place but they seem very disruptive. It's more akin to a Tube line losing a section of track in Central London - would be interesting to see/know what LU's equivalent response would be.
However it also has significant knock-on effects. Particularly to Southern and Southeastern which get caught up in lost pathways, additional calls (such as Shoreham and Eynsford and Higham for a High Speed) which slows everything down. Contingency plans are obviously in place but they seem very disruptive. It's more akin to a Tube line losing a section of track in Central London - would be interesting to see/know what LU's equivalent response would be.
Ladder23
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 1,816
honestly amazes me how unreliable the thameslink route really is, I don't actually travel much on it, but I often spot for 700's so I keep tabs on timetables etc, most days there is issues, I would hate to rely on it for work.
I think the very nature of it actually leads to it being unreliable. Being so vast but yet connected through multiple regions (they don't really do "short" trains, most diagrams are 2+ hours) means there's no self-contained trips so there's a huge number of potential external incidents that can affect the service with limited recovery options.
This is clearly what was decided was best, but I think this is a rather unintended consequence of sending direct trains between so many destinations North & South of the river.
londonmidland
Established Member
Thameslink are now operating their Bedford services from St. Pancras high level platforms. Two trains an hour.
Stampy
Member
Quick question...
In the "Core" section, is it only between City Thameslink and just south of St Pancras T/Link that is actual OHLE, as the St Pancras T/Link station is a "bar" for the Overhead IIRC??
In the "Core" section, is it only between City Thameslink and just south of St Pancras T/Link that is actual OHLE, as the St Pancras T/Link station is a "bar" for the Overhead IIRC??
Surreytraveller
On Moderation
- Joined
- 21 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 2,810
OHLE starts at City Thameslink, and the third rail finishes at Farringdon, so between those two stations there is both, to give trains in both directions two chances to swap modes
I am currently on a bus from Farringdon to Blackfriars. Arrived at ZFD from Moorgate on the H&C line (which was also experiencing severe delays), only to hear an announcement saying that there were no southbound Thameslink services from Farringdon.
Apparently this is due to a fire on a train outside STP. I did see two northbound services depart Farringdon though.
Apparently this is due to a fire on a train outside STP. I did see two northbound services depart Farringdon though.
I think @Stampy was referring to whether there was conventional OHLE south of St pancras as opposed to the OHLE conductor bar that features in St Pancras thameslink station, or is the whole tunnel area conductor bar? (not entirely familiar with the area myself so can't comment)
Surely it's quicker to walk that!
BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 3,625
It looks like things are still pretty much at a standstill through the core. And it seems like all the Wimbledon loop trains have simply been cancelled for the entire evening...
Total meltdown again today.
I travel the route daily. 98% of the time services are very reliable.
2% of the time, they're a total disaster with little or no chance of recovery. I pity those travelling to the airports, missing flights.
There are multiple different causes and no single situation is the same.
BUT
it must be possible with proper contingency planning to run a 15 minute semi-fast service between Bedford, St Albans and St Pancras, while running an all stations service from St Albans or Luton to West Hampstead or Kentish Town. If needed, the all stations following immediately behind the semi fast.
And similar into London Bridge for BML services and Blackfriars for loop services. If necessary by isolating the Core signalling and power supply.
I travel the route daily. 98% of the time services are very reliable.
2% of the time, they're a total disaster with little or no chance of recovery. I pity those travelling to the airports, missing flights.
There are multiple different causes and no single situation is the same.
BUT
it must be possible with proper contingency planning to run a 15 minute semi-fast service between Bedford, St Albans and St Pancras, while running an all stations service from St Albans or Luton to West Hampstead or Kentish Town. If needed, the all stations following immediately behind the semi fast.
And similar into London Bridge for BML services and Blackfriars for loop services. If necessary by isolating the Core signalling and power supply.
Last edited:
Failed Unit
Established Member
Former great northern is fairly bad tonight. Combination of no trains from the core and the extremely unreliable 717s breaking down (again). Not sure if the heavy loading also include some MML refugees.
Remarkably good journey on thameslink tonight. Arrived at st Pan ras at 18.50 and everything o board shown as cancelled. However they are run I g trains I from the north, detaining passengers and then sending them back north all stations. I got on one at 1915ish, there was a second one in the opposite platform and we passed a third waiting in the tunnel, so no timetable but everybody getting home as far as I can see.
Surreytraveller
On Moderation
- Joined
- 21 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 2,810
gazthomas
Established Member
Thank heavens I didn't have to go into London today!
Stampy
Member
Spot on...
I know it's conductor bar through St Pancras TL, and it's OHL around Farringdon - just wasn't too sure if it was OHL or conductor bar in City Thameslink...
Circle line was messed up today too, as well as H&C and District. Signal failure at Aldgate.
Surreytraveller
On Moderation
- Joined
- 21 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 2,810
I thought it was that bar stuff all the way through?
theironroad
Established Member
Unfortunately today's meltdown meant I missed a flight from Luton airport and had to abandon my trip.
The conductor bar starts just north of St Pancras (and also all through the canal tunnels), and stops at the south end of the former Kings Cross Thameslink station. From there to the end of the AC at City ?TL it is conventional OLE.
I’m wondering why, can anyone advise me, it was over two hours after the defective train with a brake issue that necessitated the fire brigade to be called left Farringdon before the first service ran through the core?
londonboi198o5
On Moderation
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 449
At Wimbledon earlier they were announcing not Sutton loop services until 2130 this was about 1700
Last edited:
There really does need to be a thorough investigation with lessons learned from events yesterday.
The failure of a unit at 1300 in the Core should not be causing a decimation of the evening peak service.
1. Can a thunderbird loco be based at Cricklewood to pull or push the defective unit out of the Core and into the sidings ?
2. London terminating shuttle at clock face intervals should be implemented within the hour of any blockage of the Core.
3. Passenger information systems should cope with quick switch to standby timetable.
I suspect many trains operated this evening even though the National Rail app continued to show everything cancelled for most of the evening.
4. Better instructions for tourists to use Victoria line services between St Pancras and Victoria to continue their journey to Luton or Gatwick airport. The poor bemused foreign traveller who have missed flights is a sight to behold.
A train or track failure at 1300 should not result in no service some 6 hours later.
The failure of a unit at 1300 in the Core should not be causing a decimation of the evening peak service.
1. Can a thunderbird loco be based at Cricklewood to pull or push the defective unit out of the Core and into the sidings ?
2. London terminating shuttle at clock face intervals should be implemented within the hour of any blockage of the Core.
3. Passenger information systems should cope with quick switch to standby timetable.
I suspect many trains operated this evening even though the National Rail app continued to show everything cancelled for most of the evening.
4. Better instructions for tourists to use Victoria line services between St Pancras and Victoria to continue their journey to Luton or Gatwick airport. The poor bemused foreign traveller who have missed flights is a sight to behold.
A train or track failure at 1300 should not result in no service some 6 hours later.
Last edited:
- Status