One day travel card (priv)

bionic · 3 Oct 2019

Anyone know if non-protected TOC staff can buy a paper one day travelcard using their priv? I guess not but thought I'd ask the question.

Need to do a number of tube and maybe bus journeys as well as some NR routes within the London zones on a different TOC to the one I work for. If I can't get priv travelcard what's my cheapest option?

Thanks in advance.

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 3 Oct 2019

No; see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/priv-and-travelcards.137415/

bb21 said:
No, it is not possible, unfortunately, whatever services you intend to use.

...

However if you only need to use NR services, you can now load unprotected PRIV onto Oyster cards too for use only on NR services.

Surreytraveller · 3 Oct 2019

yorkie said:
No; see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/priv-and-travelcards.137415/

You need to disregard bb21's information regarding 'U' fares from the Southern Region in that post , as it is totally incorrect

MikeWh · 3 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
You need to disregard bb21's information regarding 'U' fares from the Southern Region in that post , as it is totally incorrect

No it isn't. I've sent you a PM with the explanation.

RJ · 4 Oct 2019

MikeWh said:
Could you expand on what you think is incorrect?

Nowadays if you want a ticket including a trip on the Underground, you don't necessarily have to buy a ticket displaying all the fare zones you will pass through. For example you can buy a return from Woking, Sevenoaks or Gatwick Airport to Zone U12.

However, it is still true from most Southern stations as bb21 stated. That's not the same thing as the Southern Region that is being alluded to which is the source of confusion I think.

That said, it has no relevance to this thread which I suspect is going off on a tangent!

bionic · 4 Oct 2019

Thanks everyone. Guess I'll just rack up tfl journeys on my normal oyster and buy paper privs for the NR journeys.

RJ · 4 Oct 2019

bionic said:
Thanks everyone. Guess I'll just rack up tfl journeys on my normal oyster and buy paper privs for the NR journeys.

Why? You can get Priv loaded onto the Oyster and get 75% off the pay as you go fares for your NR journeys.

bionic · 4 Oct 2019

RJ said:
Why? You can get Priv loaded onto the Oyster and get 75% off the pay as you go fares for your NR journeys.

How do you do that?

RJ · 4 Oct 2019

bionic said:
How do you do that?

I would direct you to the link with that information on the RDG website, but it appears to be offline.

An old, but mostly still correct list of National Rail stations which can load that discount can be found in this post.

CyrusWuff · 4 Oct 2019

There are a few things to note regarding PRIV on Oyster:

There are FOUR different Priv discounts, and which one needs to be set depends on which category you fall into. As a Safeguarded member of staff, it'll be "Priv All" (unless your Staff Travel Card has an endorsement indicating no validity on London Underground).
Capping is at the public rates (i.e. from £7.00 for Zones 1 and 2, to as much as £33.10 for the Anytime cap out to Gatwick Airport on Southern/Thameslink)
If it's the first time you're adding a Priv discount to an Oyster, you need to complete an application form from the Rail Staff Travel website and take the authorised copy to a Ticket Office along with your Staff Travel Card

Unfortunately I can't provide a link to the form at present as the RST site is down.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

MikeWh said:
No it isn't. I've sent you a PM with the explanation.

If you are travelling to, say, a station in Zone 1 on the Underground via Victoria, you need a ticket to Zone U1. A ticket to Zone U1256 would be for when you're travelling to somewhere in Zone 6, say, Heathrow. The 'U' means the zones you're travelling through on the Underground (or DLR), not the zones you're travelling through on National Rail.
Your PM doesn't give an explanation, merely states that BRFares doesn't show a fare to Zone U1. A fare to Zone U1 is calculated by adding the cost of a single (or return) fare on the Underground to the cost of a ticket to London Terminals

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

CyrusWuff said:
There are a few things to note regarding PRIV on Oyster:

There are FOUR different Priv discounts, and which one needs to be set depends on which category you fall into. As a Safeguarded member of staff, it'll be "Priv All" (unless your Staff Travel Card has an endorsement indicating no validity on London Underground).

Capping is at the public rates (i.e. from £7.00 for Zones 1 and 2, to as much as £33.10 for the Anytime cap out to Gatwick Airport on Southern/Thameslink)

If it's the first time you're adding a Priv discount to an Oyster, you need to complete an application form from the Rail Staff Travel website and take the authorised copy to a Ticket Office along with your Staff Travel Card

Unfortunately I can't provide a link to the form at present as the RST site is down.

To make it even more confusing, there is the 'Staff' discount and the 'Nominee' discount. This becomes an issue when loading the Priv discount onto child Zip Cards. A lot of staff add the 'Nominee' discount onto Zip Cards, which then causes these cards not to work the barriers. The 'Staff' discount should be loaded onto Zip Cards, as dependents are entitled to the same discounts as the staff member. Nominees aren't. In my experience a lot of staff do not know this difference, and do not know the correct one to load onto Zip Cards.
Which is the fourth type? I'm aware of the All Rail, National Rail only and TfL only - what's the other type of Priv discount?

alistairlees · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
If you are travelling to, say, a station in Zone 1 on the Underground via Victoria, you need a ticket to Zone U1. A ticket to Zone U1256 would be for when you're travelling to somewhere in Zone 6, say, Heathrow. The 'U' means the zones you're travelling through on the Underground (or DLR), not the zones you're travelling through on National Rail.
Your PM doesn't give an explanation, merely states that BRFares doesn't show a fare to Zone U1. A fare to Zone U1 is calculated by adding the cost of a single (or return) fare on the Underground to the cost of a ticket to London Terminals

Mike is correct. For fares for journeys originating from outside the zones and from a Southern Railway station there is a requirement to only sell U zone fares with U Zone destination of U1256. I can’t remember the exact term now, but it is documented in internal knowledge base (ikb). I don’t have access to that just at the moment (it’s IP protected and I am on a train).

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

alistairlees said:
Mike is correct. For fares for journeys originating from outside the zones and from a Southern Railway station there is a requirement to only sell U zone fares with U Zone destination of U1256. I can’t remember the exact term now, but it is documented in internal knowledge base (ikb). I don’t have access to that just at the moment (it’s IP protected and I am on a train).

Things have obviously changed, then. So passengers are now expected to purchase separate tickets for the Underground? I know this is obviously cheaper when using contactless/Oyster, but when did this change?

alistairlees · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Things have obviously changed, then. So passengers are now expected to purchase separate tickets for the Underground? I know this is obviously cheaper when using contactless/Oyster, but when did this change?

Those are the tickets that are sold. It has been like this for ages.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

alistairlees said:
Those are the tickets that are sold. It has been like this for ages.

Blimey. Wonder if its anything to do with the plethora of different operator-specific tickets available to London that there never used to be and the difficulty there would be with putting destination on a ticket with an add-on?

bionic · 4 Oct 2019

I'm totally confused now! Think I'll stick with my paper tickets. If the booking office is closed I'll pay at destination. Paper tickets always worked well for me so far.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

bionic said:
I'm totally confused now! Think I'll stick with my paper tickets. If the booking office is closed I'll pay at destination. Paper tickets always worked well for me so far.

You can't get paper Priv discounted tickets on the Underground anymore. They stopped it when the Priv discount on the Oystercard became established about 15 years ago. There are work arounds, for example getting a Priv discounted ticket from Battersea Park to Finsbury Park, which you can use to alight from any station in Zone 1, but it wouldn't allow you to enter a station unless its considered an Interchange between National Rail and Underground

bionic · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
You can't get paper Priv discounted tickets on the Underground anymore. They stopped it when the Priv discount on the Oystercard became established about 15 years ago. There are work arounds, for example getting a Priv discounted ticket from Battersea Park to Finsbury Park, which you can use to alight from any station in Zone 1, but it wouldn't allow you to enter a station unless its considered an Interchange between National Rail and Underground

I've used that trick before but didnt realise you could exit at any zone 1 station... I thought it had to be the london terminal for the end destination.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

bionic said:
I've used that trick before but didnt realise you could exit at any zone 1 station... I thought it had to be the london terminal for the end destination.

It used to be, but they changed the rule saying any ticket with the + cross London marker can be used to exit any station within the appropriate zones, just that you couldn't re-enter, and have to buy a new ticket

Mojo · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
You can't get paper Priv discounted tickets on the Underground anymore. They stopped it when the Priv discount on the Oystercard became established about 15 years ago. There are work arounds, for example getting a Priv discounted ticket from Battersea Park to Finsbury Park, which you can use to alight from any station in Zone 1, but it wouldn't allow you to enter a station unless its considered an Interchange between National Rail and Underground

The OP said “non-protected” (I assume they mean that they aren’t Safeguarded) and these staff members were never eligible to buy Priv rate single tickets or day tickets in any case, nor are they entitled to have Priv rate Pay As You Go except on National Rail services.

Paper single tickets and day passes were not abolished 15 years ago, but somewhat more recently, although I can’t remember exactly when, there was a long period in which both were an option.

bionic said:
I've used that trick before but didnt realise you could exit at any zone 1 station... I thought it had to be the london terminal for the end destination.

Here is the relevant extract from our fares guide.

Mojo said:
It is permitted to finish your transfer short at any Underground station in zone 1 or at any intermediate Underground/DLR station on a reasonable route. If you choose to do this, no further Underground/DLR travel is permitted with that ticket; you will need to purchase an additional ticket if you wish to continue by Underground/DLR. If you are doing this, it is unlikely your ticket will work in the gates, and will need to be presented to staff to allow you to exit.

Wallsendmag · 4 Oct 2019

Outboundary Day Travelcards are different to normal tickets because you are buying a day return to the boundary then a Travelcard for all the zones you pass through. If you only wanted to use the Tube in zone 1 out and back then a ticket to Zone U1 would be fine.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

Wallsendmag said:
Outboundary Day Travelcards are different to normal tickets because you are buying a day return to the boundary then a Travelcard for all the zones you pass through. If you only wanted to use the Tube in zone 1 out and back then a ticket to Zone U1 would be fine.

Yes. There seems to be some confusion. Apparently Zone U1 tickets aren't available from Southern stations. They used to be, as I used to work in Southern ticket offices and sold all manner of combinations of U tickets, for passengers changing onto the Underground at Victoria, London Bridge, Balham, New Cross Gate, Wimbledon. But according to recent posts Southern do not sell these anymore. I wasn't aware of that (but bare in mind I haven't worked in a ticket office for about 20 years)

CyrusWuff · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Which is the fourth type? I'm aware of the All Rail, National Rail only and TfL only - what's the other type of Priv discount?

That'd be the Nominee one, which doesn't let you discount a Travelcard Season either I believe, though all of the Priv Oysters I've encountered have been Staff ones so have had the "Priv All" discount set so I haven't had the opportunity to verify that.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

CyrusWuff said:
That'd be the Nominee one, which doesn't let you discount a Travelcard Season either I believe, though all of the Priv Oysters I've encountered have been Staff ones so have had the "Priv All" discount set so I haven't had the opportunity to verify that.

Wouldn't be the Nominee, as there is still a choice of All Rail, Tfl Rail and National Rail for Nominees. That would make six types if you are separating the Nominee versions from the Staff versions.
As far as I'm aware, the 'Staff' discount allows for a discounted season to be loaded; whereas a Nominee doesn't - this is the reason the Staff version should be loaded onto a Zip Oyser, and why if the Nominee discount is loaded the Zip Oyster ceases to work.
Priv National Rail allows a discount for National Rail (including Overground and TfL Rail)
Priv TfL Rail allows a discount on Underground/DLR, TfL Rail and Overground
Priv All Rail allows a discount on all modes
Nominees and Staff can have any of those three discounts added depending on their employment. I was wondering what the fourth alternative was?

RJ · 4 Oct 2019

bionic said:
I'm totally confused now! Think I'll stick with my paper tickets. If the booking office is closed I'll pay at destination. Paper tickets always worked well for me so far.

That's what happens when people dump encyclopedic amounts of information when it's almost entirely irrelevant to the query! Sometimes less is more.

You stated in your first post you have a non-protected Priv. There's a grand total of one discount available for this Priv on Oyster, which is the NR Only discount. If you want it, you must go to one of the ticket offices in that post I linked to and they can do it for you.

I have it on my Oyster card and it is great as it avoids the need to go to a ticket office and allows more flexibility for a lower price.

Surreytraveller · 4 Oct 2019

RJ said:
That's what happens when people dump encyclopedic amounts of information when it's almost entirely irrelevant to the query! Sometimes less is more.

You stated in your first post you have a non-protected Priv. There's a grand total of one discount available for this Priv on Oyster, which is the NR Only discount. If you want it, you must go to one of the ticket offices in that post I linked to and they can do it for you.

I have it on my Oyster card and it is great as it avoids the need to go to a ticket office and allows more flexibility for a lower price.

Trouble is, you need an encyclopedic knowledge of information, so that you know when staff at the station are doing their job right, or can correct them when they're doing it wrong. Like I've said, I've had problems having a Priv discount loaded onto a Zip Oyster because staff don't know the difference between dependants and nominees (or Partners as National Rail calls them).

Haywain · 4 Oct 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Trouble is, you need an encyclopedic knowledge of information, so that you know when staff at the station are doing their job right, or can correct them when they're doing it wrong. Like I've said, I've had problems having a Priv discount loaded onto a Zip Oyster because staff don't know the difference between dependants and nominees (or Partners as National Rail calls them).

You might need that information, but the OP didn’t, which is what was causing the confusion.

RJ · 4 Oct 2019

I make a living out of selling tickets and giving ticketing advice to people. I don't bombard them with everything I know, because that doesn't help them. Knowing how to impart only the relevant information in a concise manner is key to helping people.

Instead of going on about entitlements only safeguarded/PTAC holders have, why not just say in a few words - "make sure they load the NR Only discount."

yorkie · 4 Oct 2019

The relevant information was at the very start of the thread I linked to (the first reply by @bb21).

The information in a later post in that thread isn't relevant to the OP so I don't really understand why it was brought up by @Surreytraveller; I don't believe there is anything incorrect in that post but I will be happy to discuss it further via conversation message or if @Surreytraveller wishes to create a new thread asking about U tickets that would be fine.

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